Is it possible to switch a side mount 8N block to a front mount setup?

[steveh1155]

After dealing with a front mount 8N engine with one crack in the block too many, I got a hold of an 8N industrial block that's in nice shape, no cracks anywhere, nice flat deck and cylinder #4 port isn't all pitted but nice and flat. I have all the internal parts for the newer side mount engine, and the crank journals are all in great shape. I'm missing a few things like a timing cover for the side mount, a flywheel with the timing marks for a side mount and a cylinder head. In an effort to save some money, I'm trying to research if it's actually possible to make a switch, converting a side mount block to a front mount. The ignition related parts on the older front mount engine are mostly new and were working fine. The camshaft for the older front mount was replaced about 18 years ago at its last engine rebuild and I'm thinking it could just be swapped into the newer 8N block. What I don't know is if the front mount timing cover will bolt right on to the newer side mount block. Does this switch sound doable? If not, then I'll just have to buy a timing cover for the side mount and try to find a flywheel, cylinder head, wiring harness, and a few other odds and ends.

 

[Kondoge]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I'm just gonna straight up say it, its way too much time, money, and effort to swap it, you would be better off just getting the missing parts. or you could try to have somebody fix the crack in your old front mount block, depending on how bad it is and where it is. I've heard stories on this very forum of those using JB weld to fix cracks, not that I myself would trust JB weld in a high heat setting.

 

[soaked]

Hi steveh1155,
I dont know if a front mount timing cover fits the sidemount block or not.

I see different front cover gaskets here at YT.

Its not that hard to mark a flywheel.
Just mount your unmarked flywheel, put #1 at tdc, and put a mark for 0° through the timing window.
Then put #2 at tdc, mark for a 0° in the window.
This will give both sets of marks.
Then dismount the flywheel and engraved the rest of the marks.
Should be close enough for gov work.

Here are examples of factory stampings.
Can post dimensions if wanted

 

[steveh1155]

Hi steveh1155,
I dont know if a front mount timing cover fits the sidemount block or not.

I see different front cover gaskets here at YT.

Its not that hard to mark a flywheel.
Just mount your unmarked flywheel, put #1 at tdc, and put a mark for 0° through the timing window.
Then put #2 at tdc, mark for a 0° in the window.
This will give both sets of marks.
Then dismount the flywheel and engraved the rest of the marks.
Should be close enough for gov work.

Here are examples of factory stampings.
Can post dimensions if wanted
View attachment 155119

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're describing, but you're saying just put the 0 degree mark at #1 TDC and another mark at #2 TDC where your example shows 20 degrees and then just subdivide for the rest of the marks? If so, that would actually be fairly easy to do and a good solution!

 

[soaked]

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're describing, but you're saying just put the 0 degree mark at #1 TDC and another mark at #2 TDC where your example shows 20 degrees and then just subdivide for the rest of the marks? If so, that would actually be fairly easy to do and a good solution!

With the head off, put #1piston all the way up.
A magnet base dial indicator will help get accurate if you have one. Notice there is a range of when a piston quits going up, and before it starts down.
We are trying to create a mark on the flywheel at the spot in the timing window at as precise a spot as possible at tdc. Then labeling it zero.
Sidemount static timing, and running at 400 rpm is 4°, so that is up about 7/16" from 0° on the flywheel.
Once #1 zero mark is good, repeat the process using #2. That will give two zero degree marks, 180° appart on the flywheel. Once those two marks are done, the others can be filled in. Could only mark 0°, 4°, 10°, and 18° and be fine.
Here is owners manual chart

 

[Hobo,NC]

After dealing with a front mount 8N engine with one crack in the block too many, I got a hold of an 8N industrial block that's in nice shape, no cracks anywhere, nice flat deck and cylinder #4 port isn't all pitted but nice and flat. I have all the internal parts for the newer side mount engine, and the crank journals are all in great shape. I'm missing a few things like a timing cover for the side mount, a flywheel with the timing marks for a side mount and a cylinder head. In an effort to save some money, I'm trying to research if it's actually possible to make a switch, converting a side mount block to a front mount. The ignition related parts on the older front mount engine are mostly new and were working fine. The camshaft for the older front mount was replaced about 18 years ago at its last engine rebuild and I'm thinking it could just be swapped into the newer 8N block. What I don't know is if the front mount timing cover will bolt right on to the newer side mount block. Does this switch sound doable? If not, then I'll just have to buy a timing cover for the side mount and try to find a flywheel, cylinder head, wiring harness, and a few other odds and ends.

Your ft mount parts will work on a side mt block, proceed.

 

[Kondoge]

Your ft mount parts will work on a side mt block, proceed.

Hobo I thought you were a goner man haven't seen you post in a while, also what? you mean a person could have a sidemount 8N block with a front dizzy on? I thought that wouldn't work but I haven't owned an 8N side mount either all I have to go off of is my own experience with the blocks I have seen.

 

[Kondoge]

Nevermind about my nonsense actually you can it just takes some custom fabrication but I say all the power to ya. if you can tell us how it works out and what you had to do, almost makes me wonder now if the inverse is possible, A side mount installed to a front mount block.

A quick Google does help a lot sometimes

learn something new everyday I suppose.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Nevermind about my nonsense actually you can it just takes some custom fabrication but I say all the power to ya. if you can tell us how it works out and what you had to do, almost makes me wonder now if the inverse is possible, A side mount installed to a front mount block.

A quick Google does help a lot sometimes

learn something new everyday I suppose.

A side mount installed to a front mount block. Its doable you would have to fabricate a way to mount the gen/alt and dial in TDC for timing provision. We are taking 8n on this.

 

[Kondoge]

We are taking 8n on this.

mine has an 8n engine that's why I was asking might be a worthwhile investment no?.... probably not....

Steveh1155 some redneck ingenuity outta carry you through, no duct tape and baling wire though you must promise us that.

 

[steveh1155]

Your ft mount parts will work on a side mt block, proceed.

In my head, I had thought a switch like that might work, and I already have all the needed parts, so that's what I'll do! Wow, Ford really didn't have to change a whole lot on their tooling to produce the newer side mount blocks. The front mount is still on the tractor at the moment, but all I have to do is block under the transmission, unbolt the front axle and unbolt the motor at the bell housing, just about everything else has already been removed. No bailing wire or duct tape needed!

 

[Kondoge]

on the plus side your engine will have a unique story to share of how it came to be.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Lets go back in time two GOATS agree. I had forgot about the oil filter mount, its easy to make an adapter for that...

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=615071

This would be the most common question google it.

8N side mount engine to a front mount block

I have no use for a front mount dist. if I had the opportunity to convert to a side mt that's the way I would go. Life is hard enough as it is why make it harder. YMMV

 

[8NChris]

I had a 40 with a 51 engine. I think just the generator brackets were made. It was complete when I bought it.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I had a 40 with a 51 engine. I think just the generator brackets were made. It was complete when I bought it.
View attachment 155163View attachment 155164View attachment 155165View attachment 155166View attachment 155167View attachment 155168

I understand your shows a casting date of 51. I had a 47 2N with the same block it had no provision to mount the gen on the left side, I don't see it on yours either are its farther up. The block was bad I still have it I think I don't remember the casting date. At sometime they moved the oil fill tube back I don't know when but its rare to see this on a 2N.

 

[8NChris]

I understand your shows a casting date of 51. I had a 47 2N with the same block it had no provision to mount the gen on the left side, I don't see it on yours either are its farther up. The block was bad I still have it I think I don't remember the casting date. At sometime they moved the oil fill tube back I don't know when but its rare to see this on a 2N.

He used the front mount distributor. Did he also have to swap the camshaft?

 

[Hobo,NC]

He used the front mount distributor. Did he also have to swap the camshaft?

yes, cam goes with the dist.

 

[soaked]

In my head, I had thought a switch like that might work, and I already have all the needed parts, so that's what I'll do! Wow, Ford really didn't have to change a whole lot on their tooling to produce the newer side mount blocks. The front mount is still on the tractor at the moment, but all I have to do is block under the transmission, unbolt the front axle and unbolt the motor at the bell housing, just about everything else has already been removed. No bailing wire or duct tape needed!

Hi Hobo!
Im with you on not going back to the dark side...

Hi steveh1155,
Have you already got the cams out?
If no, hope valve guides aren't stuck too bad, if so its get the valve out, and drive em down, which may bugger em up.
Remember to put sidemount valves/ guides, back in the same cylinder they came out from. And keep ft mt lifters with the same cam lobes.

Prolly still a good idea to mark the flywheel--- already have the window, so can use a timing light to check fm timing/advance.

 

[steveh1155]

Hi Hobo!
Im with you on not going back to the dark side...

Hi steveh1155,
Have you already got the cams out?
If no, hope valve guides aren't stuck too bad, if so its get the valve out, and drive em down, which may bugger em up.
Remember to put sidemount valves/ guides, back in the same cylinder they came out from. And keep ft mt lifters with the same cam lobes.

Prolly still a good idea to mark the flywheel--- already have the window, so can use a timing light to check fm timing/advance.

I've never really had any trouble working on the front mount ignition, maybe because I've just done it so many times, 2 bolts off and I can take the whole distributor to the workbench.

I've got the newer side mount block completely stripped down, even got the old sleeves pulled out. I'll be re-using the crankshaft out of the side mount, the journals are all nice and smooth and concentric, each journal measures the same both ways, so I think I'm good to go on that. Waiting on new sleeves, pistons and bearings.

The old front mount is still in the tractor. I have everything disconnected from the motor so it's just a matter of removing the front axle and the bolts at the bellhousing end, can probably do that in a couple hours. Yeah, those valve guides can be stubborn. On the side mount engine, I had to use a spring compressor so I could get the keepers to fall out, then I could remove the valve and spring and tap on the top of the valve guide. They all came out okay doing that. I have a new valve train going in the side mount but plan on re-using all the lifters from the front mount, so I'll number them to get them installed on the same lobe on the cam they were with. I'll do all the major engine disassembly when I get the old engine off and mounted on a stand.

 

[soaked]

Excellent! You got the knack.
Rebuilding the oil pump too?
Cutting valve seats?