Finding under-ground utilities

[SkipperII]

I can find under-ground utilities lines, gas, electric, with a pair of bent L shaped #9 wire that cross when walking over the trench they are buried underground. Is there a way to tell how deep they are?
Thanks,
Dusty

Although I have done some dowsing myself, in the past, I rely more on Call Before You Dig, now days. If they mark it, and you hit something, they are on the hook. If you dowse it, and hit something, you better have good insurance. Utility crews are expensive.

 

[Frank(Mi.)]

The most accurate locater for location and depth is a backhoe. If there is a line there they will find it.

Lol, I found one with a post hole auger on a three point hitch. TV cable wire though so not too bad to repair...

 

[drsportster]

This is hilarious

 

[trackrat]

The most accurate locater for location and depth is a backhoe. If there is a line there they will find it.

Or a trencher, no sense of feel at all, if it finds it, its cut. ben there done that with both

 

[trackrat]

This is hilarious

not if you have to pay for what you cut

 

[300jk]

Having been in the utility business for well over 40 years and dowsing for over 50 years, I can tell you that dowsing is NOT considered a legal way to locate underground utilities. You will be run off the job site if you intend to use wires for locates on a One Call locate. If a utility is hit and it was located by dowsing, the bill is on the dowser, not the digger. As I said, I personally am able to witch with wires but in a crowded easement you can not tell which utility it is nor can you tell the depth. Modern electronic locators are more often than not very accurate and the legal means to locate underground utilities. Now around your own property and your own lines, have at it. To answer your question, I would be very skeptical of any dowser constantly accurate on depth.

I agree with calling in a ticket, and getting everything marked out by each individual utility. I spend a lot of time on an excavator digging around utilities. Gas, electric, water, fiber optic. They will come and mark them. Usually have no idea on depth. Sometimes with gas we can hook up to a tracer wire and use a locator to help find it. When I’m digging the best tool I have for locating is a good laborer and a shovel. Last year someone hit a 3 inch gas line. Not pretty. It does happen, but can usually be avoided. No matter what utility. I do know people who can dowse. Would I trust that when I put the bucket in the ground ? Absolutely not. Just my 30 years of experience telling me no way.

 

[mark1955]

the old timers used a fork of a tree, held in the palms of their hands, with a coin, usually a silver dollar, in a slot at the front of the stick. holding pressure on the fork at rear of the stick. when water was located, the stick would bob up and down, you would count how many times it went up and down. that would tell the depth of the water, or underground stream. they didn't have the tech of today, water was the main reason for dowsing back then. i have seen this.

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Or a trencher, no sense of feel at all, if it finds it, its cut. ben there done that with both

No one wants to unearth the roots of a ' Rainbow Tree ' !

 

[showcrop]

The most accurate locater for location and depth is a backhoe. If there is a line there they will find it.

I dig until I find the tracer ribbon. It works probably half the time. What I can tell you though, is once you get the water line spliced back together, open up a good drain downstream to give it a good flush for twice as long as you think you need to.

 

[trackrat]

I have operated a backhoe for almost 50 years, most of the time doing high risk, digging around phone power gas ,mostly during fire protection underground repairs or utility relocations , my luck with locating services has been spotty at best, but if you don't use the locate system and you do cut something, God forbid, you can be charged with a crime, theft of service which could be a felony, not only stuck with the cost of repair, but also a honking big fine

 

[Frank(Mi.)]

I have operated a backhoe for almost 50 years, most of the time doing high risk, digging around phone power gas ,mostly during fire protection underground repairs or utility relocations , my luck with locating services has been spotty at best, but if you don't use the locate system and you do cut something, God forbid, you can be charged with a crime, theft of service which could be a felony, not only stuck with the cost of repair, but also a honking big fine

Yeah, not to disparage the locators but in my construction days I have seen them to be off by as much as six feet. Still you gotta' call them to cover yourself...

 

[DanielW]

I won't comment on the effectiveness of dowsing/divining. But if it does work, the old trick for getting depth from simpler locator tools was to find out where the utility was when sensing straight down. Then hold your locator tool at an angle (45 degrees-ish) and see where it detected it by sensing at that angle. By knowing where it was directly below the surface, and where it is when sensing at an angle, you can infer the depth.

If you can find the two points on the ground surface where you're sensing straight down and at 45 degrees, the distance between the points on the ground is also the depth. Not a great picture (didn't have a flat surface to write on), but I think this shows the idea:

 

[olddavid]

My grandpa used a different slightly different method. He would cut a limber sapling and hold it at the narrow end. When over a vein of water it would start bobbing. The number of times it bobbed was the depth in feet. I had some doubts but I dug a post hole using the auger type digger with extension(s) and found water at the depth he said. There wasn't a lot there but it was there. I don't know if it worked over utility lines.

 

[olddavid]

I've tried the "L" shaped wires and they seem to work if you cross the pipe perpendicularly. However, in my experience they cross before you actually get to the pipe. I think at that point you mark where they crossed and then approach from the other side and mark where they cross again. I'm wondering if half the distance between the points would be pretty close. I haven't verified it but I'm pretty sure that just digging where they first cross would be a mistake.

 

[trackrat]

I won't comment on the effectiveness of dowsing/divining. But if it does work, the old trick for getting depth from simpler locator tools was to find out where the utility was when sensing straight down. Then hold your locator tool at an angle (45 degrees-ish) and see where it detected it by sensing at that angle. By knowing where it was directly below the surface, and where it is when sensing at an angle, you can infer the depth.

If you can find the two points on the ground surface where you're sensing straight down and at 45 degrees, the distance between the points on the ground is also the depth. Not a great picture (didn't have a flat surface to write on), but I think this shows the idea:
View attachment 146998

I have used this method it works, not perfect but it does work

 

[moresmoke]

I've tried the "L" shaped wires and they seem to work if you cross the pipe perpendicularly. However, in my experience they cross before you actually get to the pipe. I think at that point you mark where they crossed and then approach from the other side and mark where they cross again. I'm wondering if half the distance between the points would be pretty close. I haven't verified it but I'm pretty sure that just digging where they first cross would be a mistake.

That is how I was shown how to do it.

 

[Dusty MI]

I've tried the "L" shaped wires and they seem to work if you cross the pipe perpendicularly. However, in my experience they cross before you actually get to the pipe. I think at that point you mark where they crossed and then approach from the other side and mark where they cross again. I'm wondering if half the distance between the points would be pretty close. I haven't verified it but I'm pretty sure that just digging where they first cross would be a mistake.

I think that maybe they cross at each side of the trench. They are showing the disturbed soil. Not so much what's in the trench.

 

[RedMF40]

I'm a believer. A septic guy taught me how to do it so I could mark all the tiles for the health inspector when I put my house in. The inspector came out and found a tile at every location (12 iirc) I had marked, causing him to allow me to continue to use the existing field and saving me ~$15K for a new raised engineered field.

So ya, I say it works just fine. And I have no clue about depth.

PS: with all due respect to Joan Crawford, I used a wire coat hanger.

Not many will get the Joan Crawford reference. I had to think a minute. "Mommy Dearest?"

 

[Non-farmer]

Not many will get the Joan Crawford reference. I had to think a minute. "Mommy Dearest?"

Yes sir. Well done

I've never even seen it, but for some reason, that quote stuck with me. I figured I should at least look it up today, and read some interesting commentary.

Christina Crawford, the writer of the memoir from which the book is based, claims to have seen the film only once, and has repeatedly stated that she had no involvement with the making of the film. She denounced the film as "grotesque", saying, "It's not a very good movie". However, Christina's issues with the film are in the presentation, not the instances of abuse. In an interview with Larry King, she confirmed that Crawford would fly into rages and beat her with household objects. "Hair brushes, and – the famous hangers, of course. It was very violent." In the same interview, when asked if the film had exaggerated Crawford's abuse, she said "No, they didn't even make it more bizarre....(but) it switched the whole story from being the story of the child suffering the abuse and trying to live through it and survive to a woman of Hollywood who just wasn't obeyed and flew off the handle and had great makeup.

 

[RedMF40]

Yes sir. Well done

I've never even seen it, but for some reason, that quote stuck with me. I figured I should at least look it up today, and read some interesting commentary.

Never saw it, either. Just remember some talk about her and wire hangers. For the record, I happen to like them. Many’s the time I’ve popped the lock on a car with the keys inside using a bent hanger. If Crawford knew how versatile they were, maybe she would have felt differently about them.