Ford 3000, starts hard, sputters, then dies.

[ChaosNQuietude]

Long story made short: 1970(sih) Ford 3000 tractor, 3 cylinder gas. Problem started a few weeks ago when I went to bale some early hay. I had just used the same machine two days prior to cut the hay and it ran fine, but this day it died on me halfway to the field. After some head scratching, I discovered that the carburetor was empty and I made it back to the shop by squirting gas directing into the carb's bowl. In the shop, I cleaned out the sediment bowl, the inside of the fuel tank, the petcock strainer, pulled and cleaned the carburetor (and its strainer), and blew out the fuel lines with air. Gas was then flowing fine, but now it started the current issue of starting hard- lots of cranking and will often have to sit awhile. Also, when it does finally start, it will typically run for only a minute or two and then sputter and die. It seems like its getting too much gas and flooding; I observed a fair amount of fuel leaking out of the carb a few times. Next, I Pulled the carburetor off and cleaned it again just in case I missed something the first time. No help. I next put in a new aftermarket fuel pump (not a fun job). Same symptoms. I then put in new points/condensor. No change. Next I bought and threw on a new cheap zenith knock-off carburetor. Still no difference. I have discovered that it sometimes seems to help if I only open the gas valve at the petcock a small crack, which seems to speak to my too much gas theory. I believe the battery is fine and I upgraded it to an alternator last year. I am getting spark at all 3 cylinders and tested the ignition coil with a test light and it seems fine, but replacing it seems to be my next step along with wires and plugs as its probably about time for those anyway. Also I'm considering bypassing the fuel pump altogether and switching to gravity feed, which I'd rather not do, but I need this Old girl for this year's hay. I'm open to thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. I appreciate this website, I've referenced it for years, though this is my first post. Thanks.

 

[Curt Cooke]

I'd gravity feed it. If that's successful, I'd focus my wrath at the aftermarket fuel pump. I've had the exact experience with an aftermarket fuel pump. Keep us posted.

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

Sounds like good advise. Update: I put in new spark plugs yesterday, and of course couldn't get it to start at all. However, it fired right up this morning though with the same ol problem of sputtering after a minute or so. Turning the shutoff nearly all the way closed definitely helped and stopped the sputtering. Will work on switching it to gravity feed, but reading though some other posts, finding the right fitting out of the petcock seems difficult. Will post again when I figure something out worth mentioning.

 

[used red MN]

Also, when it does finally start, it will typically run for only a minute or two and then sputter and die. It seems like its getting too much gas and flooding; I observed a fair amount of fuel leaking out of the carb a few times.

Hello CNQ, welcome to YT! Did you have the fitting out of the carb that the fuel line connects to? If so did you reinstall it using Teflon tape? How about any of the flared fuel line connections, did you Teflon tape those? If so that is not needed, the Teflon tape doesn’t get into the flared seats so it does no good. The fitting in the carb is often where the tape is applied, usually no attention is paid the using it sparingly and keeping it back off of the first couple of threads so pieces of it don’t break off and get in the fuel stream. When those pieces make their way to the float needle valve they love to embed themselves into the Viton tip and hamper its ability to seal completely. Then you get into the kind of problem you are seeing. And it might not be Teflon tape that is your problem, it could be any other kind of foreign matter introduced when you had the lines open. I am guessing that you will find the secondary problem when you pull the spark plugs. They will likely be rich fouled with black sooty residue. Clean or replace them and I bet your hard starting goes away. You’ll probably have to disassemble that carb and get the float needle and the passage that supplies gas to it sterile clean. Then flush the line with a couple cranks with it unhooked from the carb assuming the fuel pump is still connected. Then keep it clean around the connection when hooking it back up. Hopefully then you will be back to having everything in the world right again.
Edit: Using Gasoila or Rector Seal 5 are much better choices for gasoline service thread sealing.

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

Hello CNQ, welcome to YT! Did you have the fitting out of the carb that the fuel line connects to? If so did you reinstall it using Teflon tape? How about any of the flared fuel line connections, did you Teflon tape those? If so that is not needed, the Teflon tape doesn’t get into the flared seats so it does no good. The fitting in the carb is often where the tape is applied, usually no attention is paid the using it sparingly and keeping it back off of the first couple of threads so pieces of it don’t break off and get in the fuel stream. When those pieces make their way to the float needle valve they love to embed themselves into the Viton tip and hamper its ability to seal completely. Then you get into the kind of problem you are seeing. And it might not be Teflon tape that is your problem, it could be any other kind of foreign matter introduced when you had the lines open. I am guessing that you will find the secondary problem when you pull the spark plugs. They will likely be rich fouled with black sooty residue. Clean or replace them and I bet your hard starting goes away. You’ll probably have to disassemble that carb and get the float needle and the passage that supplies gas to it sterile clean. Then flush the line with a couple cranks with it unhooked from the carb assuming the fuel pump is still connected. Then keep it clean around the connection when hooking it back up. Hopefully then you will be back to having everything in the world right again.
Edit: Using Gasoila or Rector Seal 5 are much better choices for gasoline service thread sealing.

Thanks Red MN. No teflon tape was used on the old carb or other junctions, and the problem persisted after I put a brand new Carb on. I'll keep using rector Seal 5 and Gasoila in mind for sealing. Never heard of the before.

 

[a49deere]

Have you done a compression test by chance?

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

Have you done a compression test by chance?

No, not yet because it will start and when it does, it runs fine for a minute or two before dying on me. Though it probably wouldn't hurt.

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

Update: I've been trying to Jerry-rig a bypass of the fuel pump and switch it over to gravity feed. I Found a brass fitting with a barb that I thought I could use to go from the Tank fuel shutoff valve to a rubber hose. The fitting seemed to thread in just fine, and I didn't use a ton of force, but just my luck, doing so split open the valve casing. Brass fitting into an aluminum hole. I guess it must be a flared hole into which I put a straight thread fitting or something of that nature. So, I had to order a new one, which will take a few days before it arrives. This is starting to drive me nuts.

 

[Eman85]

If the fitting had a metal line with a flare nut it was a flare fitting and you probably forced in a tapered pipe thread fitting. I am not familiar with your tractor's fuel shutoff. What I have seen on other tractors is the actual valve has buildup and a restriction that prevents adequate fuel flow so despite cleaning the screen the valve itself is clogged. You might have fixed your problem by breaking the valve.

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

If the fitting had a metal line with a flare nut it was a flare fitting and you probably forced in a tapered pipe thread fitting. I am not familiar with your tractor's fuel shutoff. What I have seen on other tractors is the actual valve has buildup and a restriction that prevents adequate fuel flow so despite cleaning the screen the valve itself is clogged. You might have fixed your problem by breaking the valve.

I believe my current problem is too much fuel rather than not enough. The new valve should get here by Friday so I'll give it a try regardless. Thanks.

 

[a49deere]

Dirt or bad needle and seat, to high of a float level, hole in float, sticking float, worn out jets, gaskets on carb bad? Still think I would do a compression test on it!

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

Issue resolved... for now. Ok, got the new valve and completed a switch to gravity feed, completely bypassing the fuel pump. It took a lot of trial and error to figure out the correct size and thread of fitting to go into the shutoff that I could attach a fuel hose to, but once I got the correct size and attached the line to the carb via a filter, she fired right up. I ran it for 10 minutes or so in the shop followed by a quick drive around the farm. I'll call it fixed (for now) and hope to be cutting some hay again soon. I left the original fuel lines in place in the hopes to switch it back someday. In case someone else runs into this issue, the fitting that worked for me is a dorman brand "5/16th x 5/16th fuel line fitting inverted flare", bought from an Oriely's Auto parts. Not saying its the best or even the right one to use, but it seems to work. Picture attached. Thanks for the advise folks.

 

[Eman85]

So now the question is...too much fuel or too little caused the problem? Was the valve a restriction or was the fuel pump pumping too much pressure?

 

[ChaosNQuietude]

So now the question is...too much fuel or too little caused the problem? Was the valve a restriction or was the fuel pump pumping too much pressure?

I'm of the opinion that the old fuel pump failed resulting in too little fuel, then I put in a new pump and it was giving too much.