Right to repair

[Non-farmer]

FTC wins the day

Congrats to Deere owners

 

[Jim.ME]

FTC wins the day

Congrats to Deere owners

Having the right to repair is good, however there is another side to it. Right to repair does not mean free. Many come here looking for answers, like wiring diagrams for newer tractors, but will not step up and buy a one hundred (plus) dollar service/technical manual for their tractor that has the info they need. How many owners do you think will be able to afford the hardware, software programs and specialty tooling that may be required to diagnose and make the repairs? JMHO

 

[Phill Tibbetts]

At least they have the right. I believe if you buy something you should have the right to work on it.

 

[Watthour]

The critical step has been made.

Whether someone buys FSMs for their equipment, the OEM must now provide information in some format that is not a subscription, rental, or fee. Once that information is out there, it will be free in a matter of days.

GM and AC/Delco never sold manuals on how to reprogram ECMs, PCMs, BCMs, and SD modules in their vehicles, but with the required information available it was a short interval before the aftermarket had information to rewrite binary files and get modules to do whatever was wanted without paying the factory or dealer network.

 

[John Deere D]

Having the right to repair is good, however there is another side to it. Right to repair does not mean free. Many come here looking for answers, like wiring diagrams for newer tractors, but will not step up and buy a one hundred (plus) dollar service/technical manual for their tractor that has the info they need. How many owners do you think will be able to afford the hardware, software programs and specialty tooling that may be required to diagnose and make the repairs? JMHO

Many come here looking for answers, like wiring diagrams for newer tractors, but will not step up and buy a one hundred (plus) dollar service/technical manual for their tractor that has the info they need.

I totally agree.

 

[Charlie M]

Maybe a silly question - is there stuff a farmer can do on todays tractors? They are not your fathers farmalls any more. Since my newest tractor is 1955 I'm not up on the new stuff. Seems like once you get past oil and filter changes you need a college degree to figure the rest out.

 

[joeysmith]

Maybe a silly question - is there stuff a farmer can do on todays tractors? They are not your fathers farmalls any more. Since my newest tractor is 1955 I'm not up on the new stuff. Seems like once you get past oil and filter changes you need a college degree to figure the rest out.

The farmers of today grew up tuning an playing with electronic controlled vehicle.

 

[Non-farmer]

It seems like the point of this ruling is being missed by some. It's not about free repairs, or about preventing people from needing manuals - nor, for that matter, is it about anything but John Deere products.

Under the order filed in Illinois, Deere will now be required to make diagnostic and repair tools available to equipment owners and independent repair shops, not only its own network of authorized dealers. It also prevents Deere dealers from retaliating against equipment owners or repair shops who choose to fix their own equipment instead of paying for Deere’s services. "For too long, farmers and independent mechanics have been at the mercy of Deere’s monopoly over repair tools, forced to wait — and pay — for authorized dealers just to fix broken tractors and other equipment,” Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes said in a statement Wednesday.

 

[joeysmith]

Been an 8230 combine setting in the field behind my house waiting on the dealership for a month.

The actual repair is an easy part swap.
But the dealer has to reset the emissions system.

Luckily they have 2 machines

 

[Russ from MN]

Last fall my wife and I checked the valve clearance on our 2001 JD 4600, found all the information online. After 1500 hours only one valve was a little out of spec. I'm really glad we bought that tractor (new) when we did!

 

[moresmoke]

Maybe a silly question - is there stuff a farmer can do on todays tractors? They are not your fathers farmalls any more. Since my newest tractor is 1955 I'm not up on the new stuff. Seems like once you get past oil and filter changes you need a college degree to figure the rest out.

Even before this ruling, if the owner wanted to step up and acquire the service manuals and tools they could do most any maintenance themselves. Most of the major manufacturers have had this available for several years. Yes, it requires education, but not much of anything brand specific. If you have been trained on one manufacturer’s electronic service tool, you can usually make you way around another brand’s software without too much trouble. From automotive to heavy truck to heavy equipment, most of it uses similar tech.

For those of us in the industry, this ruling is more laughable than anything. Deere has always had one of the most open systems with the best on board diagnostics. It is all right there at your finger tips. It is just not in plain english. You need a diagnostic manual to understand it. When the dealer tech shows up with the almighty laptop, most of what he is doing is reading the instructions. You would need a semi to haul all the books that are saved on the laptop.

One thing that will not change is access to the machine software for emissions controls. That is locked down per the federal government to prevent tampering. With the right tools you will be able to reprogram and such with factory software, but not disable anything that is required.

Also keep in mind as far as cost of these tools and information is concerned, the dealer has to pay the mothership for it as well. Hence why labor rates are $200+ in many places.

 

[the tractior vet]

It seems like the point of this ruling is being missed by some. It's not about free repairs, or about preventing people from needing manuals - nor, for that matter, is it about anything but John Deere products.

Maybe so , BUT at what COST . ??????? Many years ago i went to a closing I H dealer 's sale , this dealer closed when the merger with Case came about and the last I h tractor was a 88 series and they had received the special tool kit for that series . i bought almost everything out of the service dept . I got everything BUT the hyd .system anilizer to go with the hyd . flow rater needed to work on the late 86 and 88 series tractors as they had not got that yet . This is needed to do work on the hyd.systems of the late 86 and 88 series tractors This is a MUST have . But since 99.9 % of what i worked on i had everything i needed to do the work correctly . I was getting by working on my customer base and able now to fix hyd. issues fast and affective saving people real money and not guessing on what it took to get that tractor back in the field . I really wanted that test tool and the only place to get one was from a closing dealer . I lacked three special tools from the first sale as someone at that old dealer took them home for himself i knew who took it and he was not giving it back. . I needed the spanner socket for the old style T/A the seal protector for the old style T/A and the sun gear assembly tool for the old style T/A , these three tools would make my life easier as i did do several a year . I saw in one of my out of state farm papers a OLD I H dealer in western In. was closing and they were selling off the shop tools . That was almost a 400 mile drive . I went to that sale for the anilizer and the other three tools i was lacking . Left at 3 in the morning and got there at around 9 there time . Huge dealer wi5th a two sho set up one for tractors and equipment and one just for combines . they also sold Steigers . Rows and rows of shop tools and everything stuffed into boxes on pallets . I went thru every pallet looking . Darn this is going to bit into my check book to get what i want and a BUNCH of stuff i have no need for . There is not ONE Stegire anywhere in my area but eack pallet had Stegier tools in them . I found the Pallet with the three tools i wanted and the Anilizer in another still hooked to a flow rater i did not need since i already had one . And in that pallet was also the lap top for the Magnum series and nobody in all my area i covered owned a Magnum . BUT what the H i want the anilizer . I got the bit on the one with the three missing tools ( don't ask) then when the one with the anilizer came up with a bunch of stuff i had no need for i chased that pallet to 3700 bucks before i walked away and when the hammer came down it sold for over 9 K . Ya want sticker shock just look what a lap top for H Dwith all the soft ware costs today , that is more then i made in three months on a good year. Many years back my Snap On dealer was tryen to get me to buy a scan tool for my pick up and car , not ever for HD app. and this was back in the 90's and a fully loaded Solus was five grand and every year ya had to UPGRADE for 1200 bucks . I did end up with one from a guy who was out of a job and needed money and bought one for 400 good till 08 . that covered everything i owned . Now it is a paper weight and the cost to upgrade to 2021 will make you pacemaker shut down . and even if i did up grade to find the issue on out 2021 Jeep Cherokee and i changed the faulty part the dealer would still need to plug in to make that part function . Ya may thing you won this cow pucky show but ya didn't . They still have ya where the hair is short.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I traded in mt solus for a verus in 2016 I got a $3500 trade in credit and a $1000 credit on the truck with the deal. Ay $9500 they were not giving away scanners for free, the next week when the truck stopped by I asked if she had sold my Solus she said no she offered it back for #1000 I jumped on the deal.

My solus even tho years out of the latest updates is still my go to for quick checks. Most scan tools have global obd2 that is the first place you are suppose to go anyways.

If anyone would like to know why you check Global OB first are generic OBD2 First google this.

why check global obd2 first

what is global generic obdii

obd2 pid list pdf

The issue that is always talked about with this subject is scan tools will substitute know good values for bad values when using the scan tools diagnostic suit. I don't think I have ever ran across this but I always double check in global that is if the value is offered in Global. Global is the manufactory values before it goes through the tools diagnostic suit. My lates scan tool experiment a Thinkcar scan tool either does not have global are its hard to find. Its a good tool for the money but very hard to get a handle on. I would like to know why they made this so hard to find.

 

[stoughtonfarmboy]

This gives me a headache, just reading about it. I don't have a tractor new enough for most of this discussion. Our grandson works as a tech for an independent truck repair shop. He says subscribing to the necessary diagnostic software (my words) is an ongoing challenge.

Ken

 

[1948CaseVAI]

The farmers of today grew up tuning an playing with electronic controlled vehicle.

Are you kidding me? Some perhaps, but this site has many who don't know the difference between an email client front end and a message. There will be opportunities to repair correctly all that will be fouled up.

 

[Non-farmer]

Ya may thing you won this cow pucky show but ya didn't .

I don't think any such thing because I don't own anything Deere made.

But Deere sure seemed to think it was worth spending lots of money for years fighting this. Why do you suppose they bothered?

 

[john in la]

You should have the right to repair even if that means taking the tractor to a independent shop.
The dealer should not have a monopoly on doing repair work.
They think you should not have the right to do is alter or modify.

 

[m16ty]

The best solution for me is to stay far away from anything that needs software to repair.

I’ve spent up to $500 for a service manual before (Caterpillar). I figure that’s cheap compared to taking it somewhere and paying for service.