1962-1964 Ford 4000 Industrial w/ 724 loader, just got a new toy and have some questions...

[4140 or bust]

Hi all, so I just picked up my 41301 this weekend and it has a 724 (19-337) loader on it. It runs well, doesn't smoke, and is beautiful (just to me apparently), but I have some things I want to address before I start loading her up. First order of business is getting a new battery, which I am about to do after I post this. Second is fix the leaks on the loader, drain the loader hydraulic fluid and change its filter, then flush the engine, tranny, rear hydro, and rear diff fluids from there.

My questions are related to the loader side of things. It looks like a couple of my hoses are leaking at the control valve, so that should be easy, but if there are leaks after I replace the hoses, it seems my options for rebuilding or replacing the control valve are very limited. I've reached out to Mike Smith but haven't heard back and am continuing to do research online, so I am trying. If anyone has any tips on that please let me know.

Also, I am not sure I will have any luck getting a filter as they are no longer available, but I called New Holland and they are looking. Have any of you had any luck finding filters that work or did you have to do something else?

Lastly, I've found manuals for all other Ford loaders, but not the 724 series. Right now, I am referencing the 725 manual from nnalert, so that's a little helpful, but I don't have the fluid capacities for my 724. Since the loader frame is the fluid reservoir, I am curious as to how one gets ALL the fluid out since it one drains from one side and when I fill it back up is it the same 13 1/2" from the fill port as it is for the 725 loader? I don't have a lot of experience with servicing hydraulics. When I have to change a line or replace all the fluid, does the air in the system work its way out on its own by simply moving the loader up and down until it operates properly/feels strong? The 725 manual says to go up and down for 15 minutes to get all the air out, recheck the fluid, repeat.

FYI. Here are the PNs I have been trying to find:

29417 loader hydraulic Filter
E6NN262AA 30" hydraulic hose

7701708 loader Control Valve


Thanks, all!

-Ed

 

[Sean in PA]

You are not limited to the original control valve. Any control valve that is close to matching the pressure and flow specs of the original valve will work fine. You can even go with a valve that has a float position if the original didn't have that feature. I went with a joystick control valve with float on the lift arm cylinders when I replaced the control valve on the Freeman loader that I installed on my 4000.

 

[Andy Wickiser]

Hi all, so I just picked up my 41301 this weekend and it has a 724 (19-337) loader on it. It runs well, doesn't smoke, and is beautiful (just to me apparently), but I have some things I want to address before I start loading her up. First order of business is getting a new battery, which I am about to do after I post this. Second is fix the leaks on the loader, drain the loader hydraulic fluid and change its filter, then flush the engine, tranny, rear hydro, and rear diff fluids from there.

My questions are related to the loader side of things. It looks like a couple of my hoses are leaking at the control valve, so that should be easy, but if there are leaks after I replace the hoses, it seems my options for rebuilding or replacing the control valve are very limited. I've reached out to Mike Smith but haven't heard back and am continuing to do research online, so I am trying. If anyone has any tips on that please let me know.

Also, I am not sure I will have any luck getting a filter as they are no longer available, but I called New Holland and they are looking. Have any of you had any luck finding filters that work or did you have to do something else?

Lastly, I've found manuals for all other Ford loaders, but not the 724 series. Right now, I am referencing the 725 manual from nnalert, so that's a little helpful, but I don't have the fluid capacities for my 724. Since the loader frame is the fluid reservoir, I am curious as to how one gets ALL the fluid out since it one drains from one side and when I fill it back up is it the same 13 1/2" from the fill port as it is for the 725 loader? I don't have a lot of experience with servicing hydraulics. When I have to change a line or replace all the fluid, does the air in the system work its way out on its own by simply moving the loader up and down until it operates properly/feels strong? The 725 manual says to go up and down for 15 minutes to get all the air out, recheck the fluid, repeat.

FYI. Here are the PNs I have been trying to find:

29417 loader hydraulic Filter
E6NN262AA 30" hydraulic hose

7701708 loader Control Valve


Thanks, all!

-Ed

There are quite a few manuals for the 724 loader on Ebay - Owners, Assembly, Service, Brochure.

 

[Jim.ME]

You can also get a valve with a third function if you think you might want to use an attachment like a grapple.

Just take the hose to a place that makes hoses and they can make one like it. It should be standard two wire hydraulic hose. Very, very seldom is a manufacturer OEM hose needed.

 

[4140 or bust]

There are quite a few manuals for the 724 loader on Ebay - Owners, Assembly, Service, Brochure.

Well shoot. I thought those would show up in my google searches. I was also looking for PDFs, but the printed versions from ebay will have to do. Thanks for the tip.

 

[4140 or bust]

You are not limited to the original control valve. Any control valve that is close to matching the pressure and flow specs of the original valve will work fine. You can even go with a valve that has a float position if the original didn't have that feature. I went with a joystick control valve with float on the lift arm cylinders when I replaced the control valve on the Freeman loader that I installed on my 4000.

Good to know. Float would be great to have. I do plan on leveling out part of my lot and that would be super helpful. I may have to make due with it as is for now. I think I'd have to do a lot of research to find a control valve that will work and then figure out the connections/hoses, and how to mount it. Thanks for the info!

 

[4140 or bust]

You can also get a valve with a third function if you think you might want to use an attachment like a grapple.

Just take the hose to a place that makes hoses and they can make one like it. It should be standard two wire hydraulic hose. Very, very seldom is a manufacturer OEM hose needed.

It'd be nice to have a third function for future attachments. Will keep this in mind.

I am not super worried about the hoses mostly because I've seen shops around here that make custom hoses. What I am not sure about is the ford connectors. I heard Ford used their own fittings that were hard to find or expensive, maybe both. I could be thinking of connections for a backhoe though. I've been all over the internet for the last two weeks, so it's hard to keep some of these details straight. Thank you

 

[Tony Jacobs]

It'd be nice to have a third function for future attachments. Will keep this in mind.

I am not super worried about the hoses mostly because I've seen shops around here that make custom hoses. What I am not sure about is the ford connectors. I heard Ford used their own fittings that were hard to find or expensive, maybe both. I could be thinking of connections for a backhoe though. I've been all over the internet for the last two weeks, so it's hard to keep some of these details straight. Thank you

Hello Ed , First off you are thinking of the Hydraulic fittings on the Backhoe they are the only ones that are different . Every 724 Loader I have and have worked on has Float on it because they are the Heavy Duty Industrial version the 725 is the Light Duty AG version which Float was an option and not standard . As far as the filter goes I have never had one that needed replacing take it out wash it and reinstall it . Unless of course someone else damaged it or replaced it with incorrect one . As far as replacement goes you haven’t even tried to reseal it or even know if it is the leak to begin with . I have only had to replace them when they have excessive wear from a lot of hours of use as in 7,000/8,000 hours or more . So needless to say I havent had to replace many . The third function can be added without replacing the valve by just adding a second valve to operate the added grapple , sweeper etc etc . You didn’t say what year the tractor and loader was ? I assume it’s gas with a 4 speed , is it still three point hitch with pto ? It was from the factory . Does it have Sherman Combo in it ? Was it a backhoe tractor at one time ? How many hours are on the tractor ? I assume it’s two wheel drive ? I currently have 1962/1963/1965 versions of the 4130 and have had lots more over the years . Your title 4140 or Bust were you looking for a Heavy Duty Industrial first and couldn’t locate one and just ran across this Light Duty Industrial ? Just curious .

 

[4140 or bust]

Hello Ed , First off you are thinking of the Hydraulic fittings on the Backhoe they are the only ones that are different .

Hi Tony, ok that is what I was thinking, but I read this when I was looking at a 4140 weeks ago and couldn't remember if I was thinking about that right. Thanks for confirming.

Every 724 Loader I have and have worked on has Float on it because they are the Heavy Duty Industrial version the 725 is the Light Duty AG version which Float was an option and not standard .

Hopefully mine has float on it. I've only used float on newer tractors where you pop the lever and it goes into float. How would on test float on these older machines? BTW, I ordered loader manuals from ebay, but there wont be here for another week or so. That reminds me, I cannot for the life of me find a 723 backhoe manual WITH loader. I am trying to find what parts I would need to add a backhoe later. Not a pressing issue, but something I've started to look into. The manuals for a 723 backhoe that I have seen do not consider a loader so the subframe brackets are a single piece that extend to the front axle, but, from what I understand, if the tractor has a loader shorter brackets that clamp on the BH are needed. Not sure if they are these or not...

Found this on Messick's.

As far as the filter goes I have never had one that needed replacing take it out wash it and reinstall it . Unless of course someone else damaged it or replaced it with incorrect one . As far as replacement goes you haven’t even tried to reseal it or even know if it is the leak to begin with . I have only had to replace them when they have excessive wear from a lot of hours of use as in 7,000/8,000 hours or more . So needless to say I havent had to replace many .

This is really good to know because I am not sure I'll be able to find a replacement if it is needed. There is no leak where the filter is located on the bottom left post. I just wanted to service my tractor now that it is new to me. How do you clean the filter... soapy water or a K&M type kit? I assumed the filter was paper for some reason.
The obvious leaks that I have found are from one, maybe two flexible hoses that come out of the control valve for the bucket cylinders. It's so dirty right now I can't tell if there are any other leaks, so I may need to power wash the whole thing carefully. It's all caked with dirt and fluid. The front pump is also caked, but I don't see any active leaks from it.

The third function can be added without replacing the valve by just adding a second valve to operate the added grapple , sweeper etc etc .

If the control valve isnt leaking and I dont need to repair or replace it, I will definitely consider adding a second valve. I definitely don't need it now, but if I need to later it's good to know I have that option. Would it just plumb into ports on the control valve or would I need to plum it into the high and low side hoses?

You didn’t say what year the tractor and loader was ? I assume it’s gas with a 4 speed , is it still three point hitch with pto ? It was from the factory . Does it have Sherman Combo in it ? Was it a backhoe tractor at one time ? How many hours are on the tractor ? I assume it’s two wheel drive ? I currently have 1962/1963/1965 versions of the 4130 and have had lots more over the years . Your title 4140 or Bust were you looking for a Heavy Duty Industrial first and couldn’t locate one and just ran across this Light Duty Industrial ? Just curious .

I saw your response in your other thread, but I'll answer here too. I am not completely sure of the year since the serial number is area has either corroded or been ground down for some reason. It kind of pitted there, but I know its a 62-64. The model number is 41301 D. Someone must have swapped it from a diesel to a 4cyl gas at some point. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a sherman combo. Not familiar with those, but it's just 4 speed. It also has a 3pt, PTO, and the 724 loader on it.

Regarding the 4140 thing, I just created my account a couple weeks ago when I was on the verge of buying a 63 4140 with backhoe and loader. It seemed to be in good condition, but was doing research on whether or not a 3pt and pto could be added on it. Found a post on here about exactly that so i created the account thinking I'd end up buying the tractor since I read someone added both after taking the backhoe off. Well I was researching for a day, the 4140 sold. So I'm officially busted. Had to settle for the 4130, but its better I think. I'll get more short term use of the loader, 3pt and PTO than I will a backhoe. Eventually I'll put one on if I can find all the parts. It just the subrame bracket that I'm really not sure about. I also got my 4130 for about half what the 4140 was. It's not pretty, but it runs pretty strong.

While we are here, I wanted to mention that I've seen your name quite a bit in the last few weeks that I have been reading about stuff. I found your number in a few different threads and was thinking about calling you at some point. Just to ask random questions, but also as if the Elenco 4WD front axle is compatible with 4130s. I'd be really interested in adding that later on if it they are compatible. Also, I came across Don Olson's name in a thread from some time ago and I gave him a call. Super friendly guy and gave me some info on that 4140 I was looking at. He mentioned he's visited your house and has a couple tractors with your 4WD front axle. Small world!

Thank you!

Ed

 

[Sean in PA]

The model number is 41301 D. Someone must have swapped it from a diesel to a 4cyl gas at some point. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a sherman combo. Not familiar with those, but it's just 4 speed. It also has a 3pt, PTO, and the 724 loader on it.

Does it have the solid front axle of a light industrial (41301) or the 3 piece adjustable width front axle of an ag chassis model? If it has the adjustable front axle, then it is more likely that most of the tractor started life as an ag chassis model, and the transmission was swapped out at some point with one from a light industrial.

 

[4140 or bust]

Does it have the solid front axle of a light industrial (41301) or the 3 piece adjustable width front axle of an ag chassis model? If it has the adjustable front axle, then it is more likely that most of the tractor started life as an ag chassis model, and the transmission was swapped out at some point with one from a light industrial.

Hi Sean, it has a solid front axle.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Hi Tony, ok that is what I was thinking, but I read this when I was looking at a 4140 weeks ago and couldn't remember if I was thinking about that right. Thanks for confirming.

Hopefully mine has float on it. I've only used float on newer tractors where you pop the lever and it goes into float. How would on test float on these older machines? BTW, I ordered loader manuals from ebay, but there wont be here for another week or so. That reminds me, I cannot for the life of me find a 723 backhoe manual WITH loader. I am trying to find what parts I would need to add a backhoe later. Not a pressing issue, but something I've started to look into. The manuals for a 723 backhoe that I have seen do not consider a loader so the subframe brackets are a single piece that extend to the front axle, but, from what I understand, if the tractor has a loader shorter brackets that clamp on the BH are needed. Not sure if they are these or not...
View attachment 158359
Found this on Messick's.


This is really good to know because I am not sure I'll be able to find a replacement if it is needed. There is no leak where the filter is located on the bottom left post. I just wanted to service my tractor now that it is new to me. How do you clean the filter... soapy water or a K&M type kit? I assumed the filter was paper for some reason.
The obvious leaks that I have found are from one, maybe two flexible hoses that come out of the control valve for the bucket cylinders. It's so dirty right now I can't tell if there are any other leaks, so I may need to power wash the whole thing carefully. It's all caked with dirt and fluid. The front pump is also caked, but I don't see any active leaks from it.

If the control valve isnt leaking and I dont need to repair or replace it, I will definitely consider adding a second valve. I definitely don't need it now, but if I need to later it's good to know I have that option. Would it just plumb into ports on the control valve or would I need to plum it into the high and low side hoses?

I saw your response in your other thread, but I'll answer here too. I am not completely sure of the year since the serial number is area has either corroded or been ground down for some reason. It kind of pitted there, but I know its a 62-64. The model number is 41301 D. Someone must have swapped it from a diesel to a 4cyl gas at some point. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a sherman combo. Not familiar with those, but it's just 4 speed. It also has a 3pt, PTO, and the 724 loader on it.

Regarding the 4140 thing, I just created my account a couple weeks ago when I was on the verge of buying a 63 4140 with backhoe and loader. It seemed to be in good condition, but was doing research on whether or not a 3pt and pto could be added on it. Found a post on here about exactly that so i created the account thinking I'd end up buying the tractor since I read someone added both after taking the backhoe off. Well I was researching for a day, the 4140 sold. So I'm officially busted. Had to settle for the 4130, but its better I think. I'll get more short term use of the loader, 3pt and PTO than I will a backhoe. Eventually I'll put one on if I can find all the parts. It just the subrame bracket that I'm really not sure about. I also got my 4130 for about half what the 4140 was. It's not pretty, but it runs pretty strong.

While we are here, I wanted to mention that I've seen your name quite a bit in the last few weeks that I have been reading about stuff. I found your number in a few different threads and was thinking about calling you at some point. Just to ask random questions, but also as if the Elenco 4WD front axle is compatible with 4130s. I'd be really interested in adding that later on if it they are compatible. Also, I came across Don Olson's name in a thread from some time ago and I gave him a call. Super friendly guy and gave me some info on that 4140 I was looking at. He mentioned he's visited your house and has a couple tractors with your 4WD front axle. Small world!

Thank you!

Ed

Hello Ed , All 724’s had Float when they were new as I said it was standard because it is the Industrial version loader . 725 loader is the AG version Float valve was an option . Someone could have changed it over the years but they seldomly fail and Ford used them valves for years and years because they were that good . The Float position is forward on the lift side just push the lever forward into the Detent position unless it has a broken Detent spring but you will still feel it move forward . All original Ford 723 Backhoe manuals are the same and show mounting with or without the loader . Non-Loader applications use a large weight box in the front to keep the wheels on the ground . The Backhoe subframe goes front to rear on both applications Ford only made one for Light Duty Industrials and AG tractors . The one you have pictured is for a 712 Loader on a Fordson Major Tractor completely different , the small box shows the power beyond valve that must be installed in the control valve to power the backhoe . Do Not waste your time on the Messick’s site it is terrible go to any other New Holland Dealer site or New Hollands parts site it is much better . Messick’s edits out deleted parts on their site and it screws up everything go look up EXACTLY what you did on another site and you see what I mean . The Loader Filter is paper and wire mesh most of the time they are clean and do not even need to be washed but I just wash them in my parts cleaner tank . Let them drip dry and reinstall them . When you decide if you are going to go with a backhoe or not that will also make difference in the piping for the second valve . I have loaders with backhoes plumbed for snowblowers and wood splitters it all can be done just easier to do one time . I hate a plumbing job that looks like the Three Stooges in bathtub scene ! When you get the Factory manuals you will see how the backhoe is piped in with a Selector valve whereas on the Heavy Duty Industrials it is controlled through a Power Beyond Port on the Valve . As far as the serial number goes clean the area real good with a wire brush and post a picture . Your tractor was Originally a Diesel that’s why there is a D after the model number . That’s why the serial number is hard to read . All 4 cylinder tractors were built throughout the 1965 model year so you could have a 1965 also . The Sherman Combo Shifter will be on the left side directly below the steering box can’t miss it . If there is just a one inch diameter hole with nothing there it used to have a Sherman in it . All of my 4130’s and 4140’s are three point hitch and pto machines and all are backhoe as well . Some are Gas some are Diesel , some are 4 speed some have Combos and some are Reversers . Some are SOS , most of my SOS’s are three speed PTO’s . If you found my number call me it been the same 40plus years , just leave a message if I don’t answer . When I am working I leave the phone in the truck or in the toolbox if I I’m the shop it’s in the house . I check It when I stop to eat . I have known Don for years and years he’s only one of a handful that’s left now , I think Roger B. Is going to be 93 or 94 and he is still sharp as a tack ! I have owned the Elenco Company for 40 years now , bought it when I was 23/24 years old . All of my 4130’s and 4140’s are Elenco’s also as you would have probably already guessed . I have owned some of my Elenco’s as long as I have owned the company and have been working on them and making parts for them since about 1980 or so . Yes it is a very small world ! Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Hello Ed , All 724’s had Float when they were new as I said it was standard because it is the Industrial version loader . 725 loader is the AG version Float valve was an option . Someone could have changed it over the years but they seldomly fail and Ford used them valves for years and years because they were that good . The Float position is forward on the lift side just push the lever forward into the Detent position unless it has a broken Detent spring but you will still feel it move forward . All original Ford 723 Backhoe manuals are the same and show mounting with or without the loader . Non-Loader applications use a large weight box in the front to keep the wheels on the ground . The Backhoe subframe goes front to rear on both applications Ford only made one for Light Duty Industrials and AG tractors . The one you have pictured is for a 712 Loader on a Fordson Major Tractor completely different , the small box shows the power beyond valve that must be installed in the control valve to power the backhoe . Do Not waste your time on the Messick’s site it is terrible go to any other New Holland Dealer site or New Hollands parts site it is much better . Messick’s edits out deleted parts on their site and it screws up everything go look up EXACTLY what you did on another site and you see what I mean . The Loader Filter is paper and wire mesh most of the time they are clean and do not even need to be washed but I just wash them in my parts cleaner tank . Let them drip dry and reinstall them . When you decide if you are going to go with a backhoe or not that will also make difference in the piping for the second valve . I have loaders with backhoes plumbed for snowblowers and wood splitters it all can be done just easier to do one time . I hate a plumbing job that looks like the Three Stooges in bathtub scene ! When you get the Factory manuals you will see how the backhoe is piped in with a Selector valve whereas on the Heavy Duty Industrials it is controlled through a Power Beyond Port on the Valve . As far as the serial number goes clean the area real good with a wire brush and post a picture . Your tractor was Originally a Diesel that’s why there is a D after the model number . That’s why the serial number is hard to read . All 4 cylinder tractors were built throughout the 1965 model year so you could have a 1965 also . The Sherman Combo Shifter will be on the left side directly below the steering box can’t miss it . If there is just a one inch diameter hole with nothing there it used to have a Sherman in it . All of my 4130’s and 4140’s are three point hitch and pto machines and all are backhoe as well . Some are Gas some are Diesel , some are 4 speed some have Combos and some are Reversers . Some are SOS , most of my SOS’s are three speed PTO’s . If you found my number call me it been the same 40plus years , just leave a message if I don’t answer . When I am working I leave the phone in the truck or in the toolbox if I I’m the shop it’s in the house . I check It when I stop to eat . I have known Don for years and years he’s only one of a handful that’s left now , I think Roger B. Is going to be 93 or 94 and he is still sharp as a tack ! I have owned the Elenco Company for 40 years now , bought it when I was 23/24 years old . All of my 4130’s and 4140’s are Elenco’s also as you would have probably already guessed . I have owned some of my Elenco’s as long as I have owned the company and have been working on them and making parts for them since about 1980 or so . Yes it is a very small world ! Tony

I forgot to add there was 3 different front bolsters for the front end . 1) was AG tractor standard with a two eared pin . 2) was Heavy Duty AG with a Hex head pin . 3) was the Light Duty Industrial with the Larger Hex Head pin . You can install the Heavy Duty AG axle beam into the Industrial bolster to install the Elenco kit . Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

I forgot to add there was 3 different front bolsters for the front end . 1) was AG tractor standard with a two eared pin . 2) was Heavy Duty AG with a Hex head pin . 3) was the Light Duty Industrial with the Larger Hex Head pin . You can install the Heavy Duty AG axle beam into the Industrial bolster to install the Elenco kit . Tony

Another thing I have to mention the two wheel drive backhoe subframe has to be modified to clear the Driveshaft for the Elenco kit just another part of the project on the 4130’s . It is also very easy to convert a non three point / pto to three point and pto and vice versa . I have bought and sold dozens and dozens of Industrials to get combinations I wanted to keep rather than having to change over everything I wanted them to be . I have bought Industrials just to get certain serial numbers . My 1963 4140 Diesel 4 speed Sherman Elenco has the Ford 717 Dozer Blade on it with the 723 Hoe three point and pto only about a half dozen I have found with the blade but the best part is that it was built 3 1/2 days before I was born ! My 1962 41301 has serial number 4547 that’s why I bought that one ! I have the Factory Ford Crane Boom attachments that mount on the Loader frame just like the bucket as well as Fords Forks that mount the same way . Ford also made Industrial blades that mount on the Loader frame that manually angle for plowing dirt and snow . Ford made a lot of very cool Industrial attachments for their machines unfortunately the stuff is not as common as AG attachments so it is much harder to find . Tony