1370 hydraulic problems, need help

[3DZ]

Hi everyone, new here and new to case tractors. Recently bought a '77 model 1370 and had it hauled home due to leaky steering cylinders. Repaired the cylinders, topped it off with hydraulic fluid and took it for a spin. Noticed loss of pulling power in high gear on the road. Learned about Hytrans fluid and the potential damage if not used, so I drained the fluid, pulled the PTO cover, washed the suction filter out with diesel 3 different times (it was covered in sludge), replaced filters and topped off with hytrans. Started it up and drove around in the yard for about 30 minutes, Transmission filter pressure was on the low side of green, transmission pressure was middle of green, trans temp in green. PS worked great in ranges 1 - 3, but still noticed loss of power in range 4.

Next day, started it up and drove about 40 feet then lost forward in every range, will only move in reverse. Also lost power steering. Transmission filter pressure bottomed out, transmission pressure bottomed out. Thinking it may be the reverse lock out on the Control valve? Is it possible that the charge pump is sludged up since I cleaned the strainer? Also, didn't notice any fibers while cleaning the strainer, just gunk that looked like old dirty oil. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Really like this old tractor and plan to restore, but need to get it running first!

 

[mEl]

I would have a flow test done on it, if you lost steering the 8 GPM pump section may have failed, the 8 GPM circuit return oil works the reverse lockout piston which has channels that control the powershift clutches. if you have a low-pressure gauge you can check lube pressure on the powershift valve cover, there is a lube port plug and with the clutch engaged there should be in the area of 75" which will drop to 0 with the clutch depressed. That is where I would start having heard your description.

 

[3DZ]

Finally got back to it. I haven't found anyone to do the flow test yet, but the pressure on the lube port is at 55 psi with the tractor in neutral and the inching pedal up and C4 port has 150 psi. Shifted to range 2, powershift 1 and zero pressure on clutch ports, still 55 on lube port. Tractor moved forward slightly, I stepped on the inching pedal, then released and it's now stuck in reverse again. Lube port pressure dropped to zero when i push the inching pedal down. Any suggestions on someone close to North Mississippi that can look at this and maybe do the flow test for me?

 

[John Saeli]

Finally got back to it. I haven't found anyone to do the flow test yet, but the pressure on the lube port is at 55 psi with the tractor in neutral and the inching pedal up and C4 port has 150 psi. Shifted to range 2, powershift 1 and zero pressure on clutch ports, still 55 on lube port. Tractor moved forward slightly, I stepped on the inching pedal, then released and it's now stuck in reverse again. Lube port pressure dropped to zero when i push the inching pedal down. Any suggestions on someone close to North Mississippi that can look at this and maybe do the flow test for me?

You can do your own flow test, crude but works. A length of hydraulic hose, 5 gallon pail and a watch. The important thing to look for is a steady, unbroken stream of oil. To test the main pump, simply plug into any outlet. For the 8gpm pump, you'd tie in to it.

 

[mEl]

Do you still have no steering, 55 lbs lube is low and that pressure comes from the steering return oil flow. You probably can't get any weight on the 3 point arms, but if the hitch does not lift in any of the powershift positions that would point to PS clutch circuit. leakage. When doing powershift evaluation the main 4 speed box can be in neutral as the powershift is a standalone unit. If you want to test further, your clutch pressure combinations are as follows,1st PS=C1-C2----2nd=C1-C-3-----3rd=C2-C3 Clutch down=C4----Reverse=C2-C4, Hope this helps. I'm not sure if the lube pressure is low enough that the reverse lockout spool is not working, usually you can hear a reverse lockout spool snap when it releases but not always. Some independent mechanics have flow meters but there is a procedure for checking them through the remote outlets that only an old school Case tech that has done work on them would be familiar with unless there is a service manual available.

 

[3DZ]

Do you still have no steering, 55 lbs lube is low and that pressure comes from the steering return oil flow. You probably can't get any weight on the 3 point arms, but if the hitch does not lift in any of the powershift positions that would point to PS clutch circuit. leakage. When doing powershift evaluation the main 4 speed box can be in neutral as the powershift is a standalone unit. If you want to test further, your clutch pressure combinations are as follows,1st PS=C1-C2----2nd=C1-C-3-----3rd=C2-C3 Clutch down=C4----Reverse=C2-C4, Hope this helps. I'm not sure if the lube pressure is low enough that the reverse lockout spool is not working, usually you can hear a reverse lockout spool snap when it releases but not always. Some independent mechanics have flow meters but there is a procedure for checking them through the remote outlets that only an old school Case tech that has done work on them would be familiar with unless there is a service manual available.

Steering still isn't working. Thanks for the testing info, didn't realize I could test the PS with the 4 speed box in neutral. I'll get back on it Saturday and keep you updated on what I find. Thanks again.

 

[3DZ]

You can do your own flow test, crude but works. A length of hydraulic hose, 5 gallon pail and a watch. The important thing to look for is a steady, unbroken stream of oil. To test the main pump, simply plug into any outlet. For the 8gpm pump, you'd tie in to it.

Hadn't thought of that, may have to give it a try.

 

[mEl]

There is no use to do any powershift testing till you get the steering working. John's method will tell you if the pump is pumping oil free flow but cannot determine if the pump will deliver under load. Hydraulics need both pressure and flow to work and I have seen pumps that will flow near normal flow numbers free flow but go to 0 GPM under load, if you could use a valve and a gauge to restrict the flow and read the pressure at about 1500 lbs and watch the flow it would be more meaningful. You will not get any meaningful results if any till you get the steering problem solved. I have seen rare instances where the power shift would go into neutral if you cramped the steering full stop one way. As before, I suspect the small section of the pump and without the flow meter it's just a guess, but an educated experienced one. Editing to add something you could maybe try, install gage in lube port and start, cramp the steering and see if the lube pressure drops . I am just guessing that the steering turns hard and does not freewheel, if it is dry and freewheels then this test won't do anything to help you. Just throwing stuff out there to try to isolate the problem.

 

[3DZ]

Well, I pulled charge pump and the 2 stage pump this morning and didn't like what I found. Charge pump had a lot of metal shavings around the inlet side and the flat washer on top that seals it. X seals are worn down pretty good and the O-ring on top was so flat it probably isn't sealing well. The housing walls where the gears ride look pretty grooved up, but gears look OK. Hopefully the filters caught most of the metal. The picture below shows what I found when I pulled the 2 stage pump. Looks like clutch dis debris and that's not a bearing on the left side of the picture, that's a piece of a bolt or a shaft broken off from somewhere along with what looks like a piece of a race or seal and a retaining ring. Regardless, hydraulic pressure is secondary at this point with loose parts floating around. I need to split the tractor and repair what I find in there. I'm sure I will be asking for advice along the way.

 

[Ranchinelec]

Well, I pulled charge pump and the 2 stage pump this morning and didn't like what I found. Charge pump had a lot of metal shavings around the inlet side and the flat washer on top that seals it. X seals are worn down pretty good and the O-ring on top was so flat it probably isn't sealing well. The housing walls where the gears ride look pretty grooved up, but gears look OK. Hopefully the filters caught most of the metal. The picture below shows what I found when I pulled the 2 stage pump. Looks like clutch dis debris and that's not a bearing on the left side of the picture, that's a piece of a bolt or a shaft broken off from somewhere along with what looks like a piece of a race or seal and a retaining ring. Regardless, hydraulic pressure is secondary at this point with loose parts floating around. I need to split the tractor and repair what I find in there. I'm sure I will be asking for advice along the way.

The piece of broken shaft is likely the end of the starter armature. Either from a past starter failure or the present one. With all that clutch material, it looks like a ps rebuild will be required and likely the brakes also.
Ranch

 

[mEl]

I would agree with Ranch on the piece of shaft as the snap ring and lock collar are starter stuff, is that big pile of debris metal or fibrous as the chunks look like Torque limiter spring center breakup type stuff that may have not been cleaned out properly from a previous repair.

 

[want@1070]

Well, I pulled charge pump and the 2 stage pump this morning and didn't like what I found. Charge pump had a lot of metal shavings around the inlet side and the flat washer on top that seals it. X seals are worn down pretty good and the O-ring on top was so flat it probably isn't sealing well. The housing walls where the gears ride look pretty grooved up, but gears look OK. Hopefully the filters caught most of the metal. The picture below shows what I found when I pulled the 2 stage pump. Looks like clutch dis debris and that's not a bearing on the left side of the picture, that's a piece of a bolt or a shaft broken off from somewhere along with what looks like a piece of a race or seal and a retaining ring. Regardless, hydraulic pressure is secondary at this point with loose parts floating around. I need to split the tractor and repair what I find in there. I'm sure I will be asking for advice along the way.

Scary pic

 

[3DZ]

The piece of broken shaft is likely the end of the starter armature. Either from a past starter failure or the present one. With all that clutch material, it looks like a ps rebuild will be required and likely the brakes also.
Ranch

Makes sense, didn't think about the starter. I'm going to split it inspect it all and re-build. Just got to find the time to get it done.

 

[3DZ]

I would agree with Ranch on the piece of shaft as the snap ring and lock collar are starter stuff, is that big pile of debris metal or fibrous as the chunks look like Torque limiter spring center breakup type stuff that may have not been cleaned out properly from a previous repair.

Big pile of debris is fibrous material.