Ford 3000 Brake Failure

[Hobo,NC]

I made it. I said the beairng came off easy I spec you cound invert it bang the end of the axle on a piece of wood the weight of the hub may just drive the bearing off, no press needed. That would be for axles that use a nut for those with a srink collar you would need a tool and press. YMMV

 

[Rocky3000]

I made it. I said the beairng came off easy I spec you cound invert it bang the end of the axle on a piece of wood the weight of the hub may just drive the bearing off, no press needed. That would be for axles that use a nut for those with a srink collar you would need a tool and press. YMMV

I finally got down to the outer grease seal after fabricating two new tools and purchasing a hydraulic press. Here is what the seal looks like and I don't see anything wrong with it; it has 'Made in England' embossed on the surface. I almost don't want to rip it out and replace it, but I already have a new replacement available. I just hope the new one lasts as long as the original.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

You've gone this far and have a new seal, why "not" replace it. It has already leaked. What make you think it is still good? Oil seal, grease seal? Tomato tomato, same seal. Your grease was diluted with trans fluid from the inner seal. If the outer seal was good it would not have leaked. Is the cost of the seal worth having to do the whole job again? You ask for advice yet seem unwilling to accept it. Again, your tractor, do as you like.

 

[Wdj]

Did the inner on one side, both and the bearing on the other last year with advice from here. So far, so good.

 

[Rocky3000]

The outer seal is a grease seal which was not designed to stop oil (unlike the inner seal which was designed to stop oil), therefore it will always 'leak'; it was designed to hold in grease and protect the bearing from outside dirt. Therefore I have trouble accepting the fact that if oil gets through it, it is a 'bad' seal. It has a different construction compared to the original inner seal which was made out of metal and rubber and had large missing chunks. The outer seal has a continuous ring all the way around the inside diameter and there are no missing segments, that's why I think it is ok. However, I will rip it out and try to get a picture of it. It will no longer be a good seal after that maneuver. One of the main advantages of tearing it all down is the ability to clean up all the parts and have the bearing in your hands so that it can be inspected and more easily repacked with grease. There was a fair amount of oil trapped between the bearing and the outer seal. With the 'halftarse' method that would ideally need to be flushed out with some solvent (like diesel fuel) and you could never be sure you got all of it. That residual oil is the only way that the new brake repair could be jeopardized after replacing the inner seal as far as I can tell; it could leak out later if you don't completely tear it down and clean it up. To do this full on repair is expensive and requires the owner to make his own tools and purchase a hydraulic press in order to make the job much easier. However, this could be a challenge for some tractor owners and I can understand why some folks might want to take a chance on the outer seal by leaving it alone. I have been made aware of an owner who has done this and run his tractor for 2-3 years without any problem. Someone needs to get the specs for that Nuday tool and commercially sell it for a reasonable price as shown in this video:

. It's a long video so fast forward to about the 1:05 mark and he will show you how to disassemble the rear axle wheel bearing assembly with his Nuday tool copy and a press.

I'm not trying to be obstreperous; I'm just trying to get at the truth. It's not an easy repair no matter how you do it. I'm on my way to spend some more money for a torque wrench which will go to 250 so I can retighten that big nut.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I’m not sure what you are trying to sale If you believe everything you have posted my recommendation would be to use the best wheel bearing grease money can buy. We wouldn’t want that cheap grease to cook up would we.

One drop of grease will ruin the job, any seal that has been in service 30 years has lived its lifespan. At 60 years it’s a no brainer I’m not buying your claim.

What I have always enjoyed on this Ford site is you get professional advice not what some hack has cooked up. The best we can do is show you the correct way to do the job the rest is up to you.

I like making the tools and seeing how others went about it. You did good on that.

 

[Rocky3000]

Attached are three images of the outer grease seal taken from different angles; you may follow the embossed letters 'Made in England' around the periphery to confirm the camera angle. When running a finger around the inside of the seal it is perfectly smooth; there are no divots. Readers may decide the condition of the outer grease seal based on inspection. Whether or not it leaks oil should not be a criterion for 'bad seal' (because they all leak oil).

 

[Rocky3000]

I’m not sure what you are trying to sale If you believe everything you have posted my recommendation would be to use the best wheel bearing grease money can buy. We wouldn’t want that cheap grease to cook up would we.

One drop of grease will ruin the job, any seal that has been in service 30 years has lived its lifespan. At 60 years it’s a no brainer I’m not buying your claim.

What I have always enjoyed on this Ford site is you get professional advice not what some hack has cooked up. The best we can do is show you the correct way to do the job the rest is up to you.

I like making the tools and seeing how others went about it. You did good on that.

I know that there are forum members out there who have used the 'halftarse' method but are afraid to speak up. I wish that they would post their own personal results so that we can see the other side. They tried to warn me that it was a controversial topic. I'm going to try and finish it 'by the book'. I haven't heard anyone talk about measuring 'end play' over here. I plan to just use the shim the factory provided. By the way, that shim made a nice template to drill nine holes in the 8"x 8" x 1/4" steel plate that I used. Our grandson did the welding and it made a nice project for him. I appreciate your help; the red press holder image was inspirational.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I know that there are forum members out there who have used the 'halftarse' method but are afraid to speak up. I wish that they would post their own personal results so that we can see the other side. They tried to warn me that it was a controversial topic. I'm going to try and finish it 'by the book'. I haven't heard anyone talk about measuring 'end play' over here. I plan to just use the shim the factory provided. By the way, that shim made a nice template to drill nine holes in the 8"x 8" x 1/4" steel plate that I used. Our grandson did the welding and it made a nice project for him. I appreciate your help; the red press holder image was inspirational.

Enjoy good brakes on your tractor, life will be good.

I got to have one of those wrenches : )

This set up is about the same as on a 9n/2N owners are always saying the brakes are no good. Its because the hack it and don’t replace the outer seal.

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[h1]

 

[Rocky3000]

I intend to pack the wheel bearing with bearing grease front and back and in between the rollers. The manual says to use 3 ounces of grease which would be about a quarter of a tube that goes in a grease gun. That seems like quite a bit of grease and may be more than what I can smear on the bearing. Should I put extra grease in the space between the grease seal and the bearing? Or put extra grease on top of the bearing looking at it from the other side? (see image below)

 

[Hobo,NC]

I would not get too greedy with the grease and use a good high temperature wheel bearing grease. More is not always better.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

For car or truck wheel bearings half full is usual because the grease wlll migrate around and packed full can overheat. But that's much higher speeds. For a tractor I wouldn't be afraid to go pretty full. Just my opinion, and we know what opinions are like.

 

[Rocky3000]

It's time to put the wheel bearing back on the axle and it's not going very well; it's probably 3/8" from the bottom of the bearing cup. I've tried driving it on with a wood ring that I made on the lathe, but that does not seem to work. I've tried using a brass rod about 3/4" in diameter and striking the inner race using an 8 lb. mini sledge hammer and that hasn't worked. I don't have one of those large punches that they use in the videos. It's the original bearing which was pressed off of the axle so it should go back on. I'm afraid to get too rough with it for fear of destroying it. I presume we are supposed to apply force to the inner race; it's the larger of the two and can probably withstand more abuse. The manual says use 2 1/8" I.D. steel pipe 30" long but my steel supplier doesn't have any that size; the closest I could get was 2 1/2" I.D. and I used that for the special nut remover tool. Is it possible to use the big nut to squeeze it back on the axle? I could put it back on the tractor and use a breaker bar with a piece of pipe to really lean on it. Would the axle threads hold and not be stripped? I guess there's no way to turn it upside down and put it back in the hydraulic press; seems logical that if we can press it off we should be able to press it back on.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Are you sure the bearing has not already bottomed out on the axle?. There will be quite a bit of clear area between the bearing and race that will come together once you install the assembly into the axle housing.

I presume we are supposed to apply force to the inner race;
YES
While we are talking about driving the bearing on by striking the inner race once the bearing bottoms out there will be a different distinct should sound.

Is it possible to use the big nut to squeeze it back on the axle?

I have made the comment about the ones I have done the bearing pressed off easy, how easy did your bearing press off. If the bearing came odd easy I spec the nut would push the bearing back on. How safe this technique would be would depend on how much the nut threaded on before it made contact with the bearing.

All this seams rather easy to me and others as we have performed this type of activity 100's of times so I understand some of your issues. I will look for a video.

Bearing install

@8:27 this one is on the hard side of coming off. The Pop and the squeaking tips me off to that, its not bad bad but on the hard side.

@23:00 his technique to install the BRG. If in doubt put the axle in a press and finish the job up there I have BTDT.

@27:50 this is what I am taking about bearing race clearance to hub before install.

 

[Jim.ME]

The manual says use 2 1/8" I.D. steel pipe 30" long but my steel supplier doesn't have any that size; the closest I could get was 2 1/2" I.D. and I used that for the special nut remover tool.

2-1/2" ID would be a 2-1/2" schedule 10 or schedule 40 black iron pipe.

You need 2-inch schedule 10 black iron pipe, which should be approximately 2.157" inside diameter and has a 0.109 wall thickness, by my pipe schedule chart. 2" schedule 40 black iron pipe is about 2-1/16" inside diameter. 2" pipe is a common size. Even Home Depot and Lowes should have it.

 

[Rocky3000]

2-1/2" ID would be a 2-1/2" schedule 10 or schedule 40 black iron pipe.

You need 2-inch schedule 10 black iron pipe, which should be approximately 2.157" inside diameter and has a 0.109 wall thickness, by my pipe schedule chart. 2" schedule 40 black iron pipe is about 2-1/16" inside diameter. 2" pipe is a common size. Even Home Depot and Lowes should have it.

I initially bought 2" I.D. schedule 40 pipe from my steel store, but had to go to 2.5" I.D. ( 2 1/8" I.D. was unavailable) because it wouldn't slide all the way down to the wheel bearing (see image). Based on the diameter of the top end of the axle it should work, but there is a weld at the bottom and it flares out at the nut threads preventing it from going all the way down.

 

[Rocky3000]

Are you sure the bearing has not already bottomed out on the axle?. There will be quite a bit of clear area between the bearing and race that will come together once you install the assembly into the axle housing.

I presume we are supposed to apply force to the inner race;
YES
While we are talking about driving the bearing on by striking the inner race once the bearing bottoms out there will be a different distinct should sound.

Is it possible to use the big nut to squeeze it back on the axle?

I have made the comment about the ones I have done the bearing pressed off easy, how easy did your bearing press off. If the bearing came odd easy I spec the nut would push the bearing back on. How safe this technique would be would depend on how much the nut threaded on before it made contact with the bearing.

All this seams rather easy to me and others as we have performed this type of activity 100's of times so I understand some of your issues. I will look for a video.

Bearing install

@8:27 this one is on the hard side of coming off. The Pop and the squeaking tips me off to that, its not bad bad but on the hard side.

@23:00 his technique to install the BRG. If in doubt put the axle in a press and finish the job up there I have BTDT.

@27:50 this is what I am taking about bearing race clearance to hub before install.

>Are you sure the bearing has not already bottomed out on the axle?
It's had to tell, but it seems like the top of the bearing is higher than bearing cup (which I did not remove) and it seemed like it didn't move much at all. The change in sound was noticeable in the video, but I couldn't tell any difference with a brass round.

Thanks for the link to the video; it was quite helpful and I plan to study it some more. When he reinstalled the bearing he heated it up with a chip fryer, which I don't have, and interestingly he did not repack the bearing with grease (maybe he added it later). I've already packed the bearing with grease and not sure how I would heat it with grease on it.

I'll keep working with it and feel confident I'll get it reinstalled one way or another. It seemed to come out rather easily with the hydraulic press. There was a 'pop' but after a few more pumps of the jack it spit the axle right out. My current plan is to try and use the press to put it back in. I'm going to try and fabricate a 3/8" plate steel 'donut' with a 2 1/8" center hole similar to the wood prototype shown below. I will drop the donut on top of the bearing and push on it with a 30" piece of 2.5" I.D. steel pipe. I will support the wheel hub with two thick pieces of steel also show below. I could set it on the floor but I'm not sure the bolts in the hub could take the pressure; hopefully the hub itself will tolerate the
force. Thanks for the video link and your comments.

 

[Rocky3000]

>Are you sure the bearing has not already bottomed out on the axle?
It's had to tell, but it seems like the top of the bearing is higher than bearing cup (which I did not remove) and it seemed like it didn't move much at all. The change in sound was noticeable in the video, but I couldn't tell any difference with a brass round.

Thanks for the link to the video; it was quite helpful and I plan to study it some more. When he reinstalled the bearing he heated it up with a chip fryer, which I don't have, and interestingly he did not repack the bearing with grease (maybe he added it later). I've already packed the bearing with grease and not sure how I would heat it with grease on it.

I'll keep working with it and feel confident I'll get it reinstalled one way or another. It seemed to come out rather easily with the hydraulic press. There was a 'pop' but after a few more pumps of the jack it spit the axle right out. My current plan is to try and use the press to put it back in. I'm going to try and fabricate a 3/8" plate steel 'donut' with a 2 1/8" center hole similar to the wood prototype shown below. I will drop the donut on top of the bearing and push on it with a 30" piece of 2.5" I.D. steel pipe. I will support the wheel hub with two thick pieces of steel also show below. I could set it on the floor but I'm not sure the bolts in the hub could take the pressure; hopefully the hub itself will tolerate the
force. Thanks for the video link and your comments.

View attachment 165413View attachment 165414

Finally got the bearing driven in; wound up fabricating a 3/8" steel donut and placing it over the bearing followed by a 30" section of 2 1/2" I.D. steel pipe and a small piece of 3/8" steel plate over the top of the pipe. Then the bearing was pounded in place with a large sledge hammer; rather crude but it worked. I was unable to get the hydraulic press technique worked out.

Now it's time to reinstall the inner seal and put the axle back in the tractor. I'm not sure how far to drive in the new seal. It is slightly past the red ring in the image below but does not touch the metal lip at the back. The new seal doesn't appear to be as wide as the original. Could someone take a look at this image and see if I have driven it in far enough. I went back and looked at the original seal and it appears to have been driven in further. Thanks.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I assume when they machined the housing out for the seal it would stop at that point. Drive it in till it seats. If in doubt measure it up. The garter spring on the oil side of the oil seal, I pack it with grease that keeps it from jumping out while driving the seal in.

I am thinking before you install the axles it would be a good time to replace the brake cross shaft oil seals. : )

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Finally got the bearing driven in; wound up fabricating a 3/8" steel donut and placing it over the bearing followed by a 30" section of 2 1/2" I.D. steel pipe and a small piece of 3/8" steel plate over the top of the pipe. Then the bearing was pounded in place with a large sledge hammer; rather crude but it worked. I was unable to get the hydraulic press technique worked out.

Now it's time to reinstall the inner seal and put the axle back in the tractor. I'm not sure how far to drive in the new seal. It is slightly past the red ring in the image below but does not touch the metal lip at the back. The new seal doesn't appear to be as wide as the original. Could someone take a look at this image and see if I have driven it in far enough. I went back and looked at the original seal and it appears to have been driven in further. Thanks.
View attachment 165763

As recall on mine the seals went in to a shoulder. I did both sides at the same time and made two aluminum discs to fit. Ran two lengths of 1/2 threaded stock with a coupling nut that reached through and installed both seals at once. Used a piece of 2" iron pipe and a coupling to drive the bearing on after packing the grease. Coupling was needed bc the ID of the pipe wouldn't quite fit over the bearing area of the shaft but the coupling would. Heated the retaining rings to 750 and used a tempstick to be sure. Hold the ring tight to the bearing till it cools enough to grip.