4030 clutch won't disengage

[Whitedog]

Hello, folks. I'll try to keep the history brief here.

Cracked engine block. Installed rebuilt longblock. Dropped a PTO clutch friction when hanging the clutch. Split tractor again and took flywheel and clutch to Deere to replace frictions and springs and adjust the clutch. Also got advice on how to properly hang the clutch.

I wedged the levers before removing the clutch from the flywheel, mounted everything and spun the hubs to be sure I didn't drop any frictions this time. PTO works fine, but when I try to put it in gear, the tractor tries to move. I put it tow, then moved to 2nd, but when I try to take it out of tow, it just grinds.

Clutch pressure drops to zero when I step on the clutch pedal.

I have high mechanical abilities, but no experience with these. I pulled the starter and turned the engine so the gap between the plates was in that window. I looked at the traction clutch plates with a borescope and they are definitely loose. I can just reach a finger in and move the separator plate.

One thought I had was to just jam it into 2nd, hoping something shocks loose, but with my luck on this machine, I would break something.

So, any advice? I have the manual and I understand that this clutch works backwards of how a regular clutch works, but I must be missing something. All advice is appreciated.

 

[Tx Jim]

My guess is one or both traction clutch plates were damaged while joining tractor 1/2's back together. Were tractor 1/2's parallel with each other when rejoining together? I also suggest to check clutch operating hyd pressure.

 

[rockcreek4630]

The only other thing is did the pilot bushing get damaged in the crankshaft.

 

[matthies]

Did you roll/push the last inch together or draw the split together with the bolts?

 

[Whitedog]

My guess is one or both traction clutch plates were damaged while joining tractor 1/2's back together. Were tractor 1/2's parallel with each other when rejoining together? I also suggest to check clutch operating hyd pressure.

We struggled a bit joining them. )(it's on a loose hravel floor) A little wiggle up, a little wiggle down. Finally it slipped in up to the last 1/2 inch. I have the turning tool so we constantly rolled the engine around to see if there was ever a change. In the first attempt, we got maybe an inch away and I could feel it start to drag, so we backed off, adjusted and tried again.

I don't understand how the clutch plates could get damaged as long as they were on the hubs since the input shaft goes through the hubs, not the plates. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm saying I don't understand.

One other thing that I have thought of is if its possible for the input shaft to be pushing on the hub so that it's pushing hard against the flywheel. But it would seem like the hub and shaft would self align and the hub would be free.

Before I split it again, I would like to have some ideas on what to look for.

Pilot bearing damage, are the clutches floating freely on the hub, burrs on the splines on the hub and input shaft. I pulled the Trans driveshaft before splitting abd installed it after joining, but could that be causing any problem?

Just had another thought. Since the pilot bushing is in a piece inserted into the flywheel, when the bushing was replaced, could the position of that insert push against the hub and lock them together?

 

[Whitedog]

Did you roll/push the last inch together or draw the split together with the bolts?

We had to wiggle a bit. We got it up to the dowels and pulled it in from there. I have the engine turning tool and we turned the engine constantly to monitor any change in drag.

 

[Whitedog]

The only other thing is did the pilot bushing get damaged in the crankshaft.

That is now on my list of things to check.

 

[matthies]

Nothing was said about the hex shaft, was this removed prior to assembly?

 

[Whitedog]

Nothing was said about the hex shaft, was this removed prior to assembly?

Yes.

 

[Whitedog]

Nothing was said about the hex shaft, was this removed prior to assembly?

I just had thought on this. If I pulled the shaft to disengage it from the flywheel and started it, then quickly tried to put it in gear, this should tell me if somehow the throwout bearing is engaging. If it still won't go into gear, it 100% has to be split, whereas now I'm only 99%.

 

[used red MN]

If I pulled the shaft to disengage it from the flywheel and started it,

Clutch pressure drops to zero when I step on the clutch pedal.

I would say pulling the shaft is a futile effort if clutch pressure at the test port drops to zero.

 

[used red MN]

We had to wiggle a bit. We got it up to the dowels and pulled it in from there. I have the engine turning tool and we turned the engine constantly to monitor any change in drag.

Should not need to “pull” with the bolts at all. Log chain looped around the front and rear axle(or attached to something on the rear end) on each side, a guy on each side applying down pressure on the chain with his foot alternating side to side to wiggle it together until the gap is closed. If the gap is not closed when you start cranking bolts you never know if you’re doing damage or not.

 

[Whitedog]

I would say pulling the shaft is a futile effort if clutch pressure at the test port drops to zero.

I was thinking that too, but I'm just wishing its not something that I screwed up.

 

[Whitedog]

Should not need to “pull” with the bolts at all. Log chain looped around the front and rear axle(or attached to something on the rear end) on each side, a guy on each side applying down pressure on the chain with his foot alternating side to side to wiggle it together until the gap is closed. If the gap is not closed when you start cranking bolts you never know if you’re doing damage or not.

I was thinking about something along that line as well, but I really like the idea of stepping on the chain.

 

[used red MN]

I was thinking about something along that line as well, but I really like the idea of stepping on the chain.

Here’s a video of a guy that takes a straight forward approach to things assembling a 4230 Perma-clutch. Jon Stevens 4230 clutch

 

[miangus]

The 4030 would have a JD Perma-clutch, are there release springs? Maybe the apply piston is sticking.

 

[Whitedog]

The 4030 would have a JD Perma-clutch, are there release springs? Maybe the apply piston is sticking.

Yes, there are release springs. They go between the front plate of the clutch and the center plate, I think. But they push the plates apart which pushes the levers back which push the apply back. Since there is a definite gap between the discs and the plates, the apply piston must be pushed back.

 

[miangus]

If there is a visible gap between the plates. It sounds like a pilot bearing issue.

 

[Whitedog]

If there is a visible gap between the plates. It sounds like a pilot bearing issue.

I think that is the best possibility. <SIGH> I guess I'll pop this thing apart.

 

[Whitedog]

I think that is the best possibility. <SIGH> I guess I'll pop this thing apart.

I would have had this ready to pull the bolts and split it half an hour ago, but it took awhile to save the trans oil. The starter was already off, so that saved some time.

I guess I need to get blocks under the transmission too.