12 v starter on 3010 wiring problems

[2old2learn]

Hello, I’m converting a 3010 24 V system to 12 V system. I bought new starter 12 V negative ground installed it on the tractor hooked positive battery post to large terminal on the solenoid, negative from the battery to the Tractor frame and it lights up the whole Tractor everything’s 12 V including the case on the starter, no shorts just everything is 12 v HELP!

 

[used red MN]

Hello, I’m converting a 3010 24 V system to 12 V system. I bought new starter 12 V negative ground installed it on the tractor hooked positive battery post to large terminal on the solenoid, negative from the battery to the Tractor frame and it lights up the whole Tractor everything’s 12 V including the case on the starter, no shorts just everything is 12 v HELP!

Are you in Area 51? What do you mean “lights up the whole tractor”? Are you using a light or volt meter and that shows power/voltage on all the claimed parts? Are you clamping the negative lead of the tester to the negative battery terminal? If so this means your negative battery cable has an open, or in other words the ground connection is not making it through to the negative battery post. On the negative battery cable pull the insulated cable away from both the post terminal end and the bolt eyelet like you are trying to pull the head off a snake and see if it pulls out. If it does you have found your bad connection.

 

[2old2learn]

Are you in Area 51? What do you mean “lights up the whole tractor”? Are you using a light or volt meter and that shows power/voltage on all the claimed parts? Are you clamping the negative lead of the tester to the negative battery terminal? If so this means your negative battery cable has an open, or in other words the ground connection is not making it through to the negative battery post. On the negative battery cable pull the insulated cable away from both the post terminal end and the bolt eyelet like you are trying to pull the head off a snake and see if it pulls out. If it does you have found your bad connection.

Yes, thank you I’ll have to check that but it’s not like there’s a dead Short. It just shows using test light every place on the tractor. I touch I get 12 V or it lights the light……..

 

[Northvale PA]

I searched JD 4020 12 volt wiring diagram on the internet, when I converted my 4010. Nice color coded diagrams. I bought a new starter and alternator kit. No problems making the changes.

 

[2old2learn]

What can you tell me about a dedicated negative ground wire rather than using the case as a negative ground???

 

[2old2learn]

OK I have some things to check out. Thanks for the help.

 

[used red MN]

but it’s not like there’s a dead Short.

No offense, but I can see you’re not real in tune with electrical theory and terminology. I used the term “open” or the real term would be “lost continuity” but I also explained it in common terms or at least I thought so. Maybe if I explained it as the negative battery cable is acting as if there is a switch installed in it and it is turned off as in the contacts are “open”!
Here is another thing you can try remove the terminal off of the negative battery post. Take a set of jumper cables and clamp one of the black leads on the negative post and clamp the other black lead to a good clean spot on the chassis. I suspect this will make your odd “hot” tractor go away.

 

[2old2learn]

OK, that sounds like a real good plan. I will try that. Thanks again.

 

[Tx Jim]

If utilizing original 24 volt wiring harness do you have both brown & blue wires that were attached to different locations on 24 volt starter attached to top post on 12 volt starter solenoid?

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Is the Midpoint ground removed or at the very least moved to negative post? That is my other question I guess…negative post of both new batteries should go to chassis if using 2 12v batteries in the original location

 

[used red MN]

OK, that sounds like a real good plan. I will try that. Thanks again.

i should rewind a bit now realizing this conversion is a bit more complicated than most. I asked where you are connecting the test light lead or the meter black lead to get the result you reported, this is very important answer to verify what I am saying is correct. I made a lot of assumptions based only on what you described. I was going to ask what other “feeds” you had on the large terminal post on the starter? Do you have both feeds on there as Tx Jim has replied? By feeds I mean other smaller but heavier wires that feed power up behind the dash. It would be best if you supplied some photos of your connections at the starter and how the battery(ies?) are connected. Do you have some type of instructions or wiring diagram to follow to complete this conversion? If you try the jumper cable test as I described connect the one end to the battery and then cautiously and momentarily connect the other end to the chassis to make sure that something you have connected is not shorting out. In other words making sure there is not a lot of sparks when you attempt that connection. I don’t want to cause you to burn up any wiring by assuming something, I am not there to see it and assure it is wired okay and only an open or internal disconnection in your negative battery cable is causing the problem.

 

[2old2learn]

i should rewind a bit now realizing this conversion is a bit more complicated than most. I asked where you are connecting the test light lead or the meter black lead to get the result you reported, this is very important answer to verify what I am saying is correct. I made a lot of assumptions based only on what you described. I was going to ask what other “feeds” you had on the large terminal post on the starter? Do you have both feeds on there as Tx Jim has replied? By feeds I mean other smaller but heavier wires that feed power up behind the dash. It would be best if you supplied some photos of your connections at the starter and how the battery(ies?) are connected. Do you have some type of instructions or wiring diagram to follow to complete this conversion? If you try the jumper cable test as I described connect the one end to the battery and then cautiously and momentarily connect the other end to the chassis to make sure that something you have connected is not shorting out. In other words making sure there is not a lot of sparks when you attempt that connection. I don’t want to cause you to burn up any wiring by assuming something, I am not there to see it and assure it is wired okay and only an open or internal disconnection in your negative battery cable is causing the problem.

OK to describe what I have, the starter is mounted on the tractor. The battery cables are connected to the main terminal on the starter solenoid. No other feeds are connected. I was basically just going to energize the S terminal on the solenoid to check rotation of the starter, but thought ahead I would test things with test light. That’s when I found out that everything I touched the test light on was energized.
But I have yet to check my negative cable. I thought to use the jumper cable suggestion.
What about the dedicated ground wire that’s supposed to be hooked to the insulated terminal on the starter??? that’s where I’m confused…….

 

[Janicholson]

The original starter had no actual tractor ground. It was connected between the 2 12v batteries independent of any ground circuit. the tractor 12v original accessories operated off of one or the other of the 2 12v batteries. (which had them grounded through the connection between the 2 batteries making some of them positive ground, and some negative ground.) They must now be all negative ground, and the starter only has one big battery cable from positive. Jim

 

[used red MN]

OK to describe what I have, the starter is mounted on the tractor. The battery cables are connected to the main terminal on the starter solenoid. No other feeds are connected. I was basically just going to energize the S terminal on the solenoid to check rotation of the starter, but thought ahead I would test things with test light. That’s when I found out that everything I touched the test light on was energized.
But I have yet to check my negative cable. I thought to use the jumper cable suggestion.
What about the dedicated ground wire that’s supposed to be hooked to the insulated terminal on the starter??? that’s where I’m confused…….

Sorry. I’m busy today with family stuff others on here can help you. It would be helpful if you tell us if you are using one or two batteries a real big help would be if you draw out a diagram of how you have them connected. That dedicated ground cable to the starter will be removed. If you use two batteries each battery negative will ground to the chassis and the positives will either be connected together and one cable run to the starter solenoid or each individual one will go to the starter. That mid point ground wire the others mentioned will also go away.

 

[matthies]

You need a positive cable from each battery to the solenoid, and a ground cable to the tractor/chassis from each battery. Sounds like you just hooked up the cables from the 24 volt starter right to the solenoid.

 

[2old2learn]

Ok guys look at my handle too old to learn.
Sometimes it’s better just to pause. Let things set sleep on it. Try it again in the morning.
I went up this morning and I had my test light hooked to the positive side of the battery. I’m eating humble pie.!!!
Thanks for all your help.
Wishing God’s blessings to you all and a merry Christmas!

 

[used red MN]

Ok guys look at my handle too old to learn.
Sometimes it’s better just to pause. Let things set sleep on it. Try it again in the morning.
I went up this morning and I had my test light hooked to the positive side of the battery. I’m eating humble pie.!!!
Thanks for all your help.
Wishing God’s blessings to you all and a merry Christmas!

Hopefully there is some gray matter in the brain that can learn from this misstep in the process. All is not lost. Same blessings and wishes back at you!

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Merry Christmas as well! Glad the issue was the human element as I was afraid the offending part would have made itself known by spark and smoke by now