vidaliaman
Member
ammeter settled down to normal position after using for just a very short period of time, i want to thank everyone for a great deal of help on my first conversion, tractor runs like a top, thanks again to all
dave
dave
H
HFJ
Guest
good deal
i've been happy with my conversion. now both of my tractors are 12 volts, and i don't miss those 6 volt days at all.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
Amp meter lubbers sue hate it when I point out a volt meter is the first tool needed to do battle with a charging system on most anything.
If you have a 12V alt there is no reason to use a amp meter it makes no sense at all other than eye candy... Remove that amp meter and install a voltmeter in that hole... Life will be good..
Google this
S.61428
http://v2.us.sparex.com/ItemDetails/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=61428
carlntexas
Member
(quoted from post at 15:41:12 07/12/16)
good deal
i've been happy with my conversion. now both of my tractors are 12 volts, and i don't miss those 6 volt days at all.
No way I would go back to 6v I bought 3 regulators that didn't work. Did a home brew to 12 volt and voltmeter as Hobo says life is good.
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
Thanks for the email Dave. Glad to know you found the issue.
Doesn't hurt my feelings that you found it without a voltmeter.
Both meters have there place. It's the person reading it that
needs to pay attention and know what the readings mean.
In that regard Hobo is correct. Many people don't know how to
read an ammeter and so it causes more confusion than good.
Heck, many younger people have never seen either gauge, they
just have idiot lights on their dash so neither one makes a
difference. Why pay attention to gauges when there are lights?
Low fuel light for example? I think all cars have them now.
Not to mention a bell or buzzer to tell you to check the light
and/or digital readout telling you that your gauge is on E.
Sometimes I feel like this whole world needs a Windows style reboot.
Doesn't hurt my feelings that you found it without a voltmeter.
Both meters have there place. It's the person reading it that
needs to pay attention and know what the readings mean.
In that regard Hobo is correct. Many people don't know how to
read an ammeter and so it causes more confusion than good.
Heck, many younger people have never seen either gauge, they
just have idiot lights on their dash so neither one makes a
difference. Why pay attention to gauges when there are lights?
Low fuel light for example? I think all cars have them now.
Not to mention a bell or buzzer to tell you to check the light
and/or digital readout telling you that your gauge is on E.
Sometimes I feel like this whole world needs a Windows style reboot.
When you start a tractor it will take juice from the battery. if its very strong your amp meter will barely move. the alternator will put out what ever the battery will take. if it drops your voltage down some it will show the amps it taking to charge it back up and when the voltage gets back towards normal the amp meter will go down to around zero. Personally I like amp meters. it will tell you whether your charging system is working and how strong your battery is. just my preference.
Clifford B.
Member
More like a boot in the keister !!!
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
As in any amp meter lubbers questionable reasons to explain there luv for a amp meter its still questionable, confusing nor dependable information. Amp meter readings have to many holes in it that vary it does not justify its dependability in making a proper fast evaluation of the health of the starting/charging system. Any diagnosis should start by evaluating the whole electrical system not one component that would include any mechanical parts associated with the system.
All these post would have lead to a better battle plan if WE ONLY HAD A VOLTAGE READING.
This post proves that as in most every post were the only information provided is a amp meter reading. If you depend on amp meter readings only its the blind leading the blind no matter how smart you think you are.
I agree about the voltmeter. My '88 Toyota truck came with an ammeter which kinda worked,but I installed a voltmeter after an incident in which the ammeter pegged to negative for a couple of minutes. Now,when I start the truck,it shows charging for about 1/2 mile,then backs off to normal. I've had no problems since installing the voltmeter,wired to the battery via the cigar lighter+.
vidaliaman
Member
didn't do anything, after i fired it up my dad took off with it and mowed, he called me later and said ammeter went down in
minutes to middle, must be i worked the battery over a bit before i got it running, i had to replaced the starter(bad bendix) so
i must have wore the battery down during conversion, will have to keep an eye on it
thanks again for all the help
dave
minutes to middle, must be i worked the battery over a bit before i got it running, i had to replaced the starter(bad bendix) so
i must have wore the battery down during conversion, will have to keep an eye on it
thanks again for all the help
dave
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
Some more info for anyone that wants to know why there is a voltage set point are why a voltage reading is important. Its EZ no need to make chit up.
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/howitworks.shtml
are google
what does voltage set point on a alternator meaning
alternator regulator function
electronic voltage regulator alternator
alternator voltage regulator operation
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
12V conversion with a gm 10si alt with a amp meter.
1) OK, I try to start my tractor it wont crank the amp meter reads 0.
What valuable info does the amp meter represent.
Paul in Edmonton
Member
Had the same issue on my recent 12V conversion. I find that it drops to something reasonable within a few seconds, maybe half a minute. Freaked me out a bit the first time, though, until it came down. On successive starts the same day, it goes high without pegging and comes down faster.
-Paul
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
That's just wonderful... The problem is you and anyone else even those who dream up chit to defend there precious amp meter are still in the dark. If you had a voltmeter and it read somewhere in the range of 14V to 14.5V life would be good no other info are guess would have to be made for the daily operation of your tractor.
One in a million with a amp meter may tip you off to a problem 99 out of a 100 the voltmeter reading is all you need and way less complicated than you judgment with a amp meter...
I have said "I drag out a amp clamp to prove the alt has the ability to out put with end 10% of it rated capacity" I only do this to prove the voltmeter readings are correct and 99.9% of the time they are...
What tool does the amp meter readers use to prove the voltage is correct when they get confused about what they think is a abnormal amp meter reading :?:
A) sun-dial
B) Compression tester
C) Tire gauge
4) Voltmeter
I could not get a answer to question #1 This seams to always stump amp meter lubbers...
I will try another question maybe it will be easier.
2) My battery is dead this event is a ongoing problem see question # 1
Question #1) 12V conversion with a gm 10si alt with a amp meter.
1) OK, I try to start my tractor it wont crank the amp meter reads 0.
What valuable info does the amp meter represent.
2A)I jump it off the amp meter reads 15 amps after 30 min of operating time the amp meter is reading 5 amps.
I am getting tired of jumping it off why does it keep repeting this my amp meter shows its charging...
What valuable info is the amp meter representing.
All of that would tell me that I have a bad battery or a drain on it and I would confirm it with a load test. My ammeter will stay on the tractor till it fails and then I probably will put a volt meter on it. If I need to see what the voltage is I will use my analog voltmeter and just take a reading.
each to his own.
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
When you re-wire your tractor or your gauge fails, if you prefer to use a
voltmeter that's a good time to do it. I have them on some of my tractors too.
Re-wiring the tractor or changing the gauge to fix an existing
problem doesn't make sense to me though. It may add problems.
Use what you have and fix it as is.
Change it to what you like once fixed.
Voltmeters are easy to wire but you can't just stick them in
the hole and connect the wires that were on your ammeter.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
The amp meter is showing a charge you can have amperage but low voltage out put from the alternator. You are still going to need a voltmeter.
A Download to check battery state of charge.
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/alternative-energy/battery-state-of-charge-chart/
Question
Can anyone find are post a chart were the use of a amp-meter is a indicator of battery health.
Can they also post a chart that indicates the alternators health by using a amp meter only.
Question #3
See question #1 & 2, this event is repeated for months I have charged the battery load tested it the bat always checks good after its been charged. There are no drains on the battery its been confirmed the alt always show's its charging by the amp meter.
What should my next step to diagnose the health of the starting charging system.
A) Make sure every thing is clean bright and tight
B) Take the alternator to a parts store and have it checked.
C) Replace the battery
D) Check the voltage output of the alternator with a voltmeter.
This is not a each to his own are I can do it because I have a fleet of tractors with amp-meters. Whats the most logical answer.
Clifford B.
Member
Just my $.02, but when I started working
in my grand dad's AGS shop my freshman year he taught me that the only way to really know what was going on
was to use both, it's
a fact that both amperage and voltage are the works
of the system, take away one and it wont work, simple as that. I use a volt meter as it tells me if I have any
power to work with in the first place, the amp gauge tells me
if the alt. is working or not, using both makes figuring out
whether your battery is toast or not is not complicated
why make it so...??
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
Because the amp meter has magic in it, Its has some kind of voodoo over its f lock they can not give it up and understand if the voltage is not there the stigma of that little needle movement is going to send them down a long road with no light at the end of the tunnel.
The original post is a very good example if he had gave a voltmeter reading he would not have had to sweet it out till the amperage came down...
Using amp meter readings only to determine charging system health is a pipe dream what are they smoking "prove me wrong I can handle it".
I can not get a answer to any of the questions it does not surprise me because of the lack of knowledge from staring at amp meters...
Nutter question with a voltage reading and amp meter reading tho the amp meter reading is mute and can be very misleading..
4) Seen question 1.2,3 I am getting disgusted after mo of dealing with this issue I brought a 12V wiring harness, a new alt and battery. Life was good but after 30 days I am back to were I started. I am about to the point of going back to 6V
that seams to be what the general population at YT think is best.I guess the pizz poor excuse of not having are being able to provide a volt reading is all I can see I have not done. I broke down and got a volt meter reading.
I start the tractor up the amp meter pegs out at 30 amps then settles down to around 0 to 5 amps the volt meter reads 13.5V at 30 amps then settles down to 13.2V at 0 to 5 amps.
A) bubba says make sure everything is clean bright and tight, take the battery and alt to a parts store and have it checked.
B) bubba says confirm the belt is not slipping the pulley is tight on the alt and has the correct pulley/belt combination.
C) bubba says convert it back to 6V you were a dumarse to go 12V.
D) bubba says That's a normal amp meter reading the amps go up once started to replenish the battery's storage capacity once it satisfied it will show only the amperage needed to run the tractor. The voltmeter reading is mute means nuttin you wasted your time believe the amp meter its magic.
E) all of the above.
Pick one A B C D E.
(quoted from post at 20:18:58 07/15/16)
Because the amp meter has magic in it, Its has some kind of voodoo over its f lock they can not give it up and understand if the voltage is not there the stigma of that little needle movement is going to send them down a long road with no light at the end of the tunnel.
The original post is a very good example if he had gave a voltmeter reading he would not have had to sweet it out till the amperage came down...
Using amp meter readings only to determine charging system health is a pipe dream what are they smoking "prove me wrong I can handle it".
I can not get a answer to any of the questions it does not surprise me because of the lack of knowledge from staring at amp meters...
Nutter question with a voltage reading and amp meter reading tho the amp meter reading is mute and can be very misleading..
4) Seen question 1.2,3 I am getting disgusted after mo of dealing with this issue I brought a 12V wiring harness, a new alt and battery. Life was good but after 30 days I am back to were I started. I am about to the point of going back to 6V
I guess the pizz poor excuse of not having are being able to provide a volt reading is all I can see I have not done. I broke down and got a volt meter reading.
I start the tractor up the amp meter pegs out at 30 amps then settles down to around 0 to 5 amps the volt meter reads 13.5V at 30 amps then settles down to 13.2V at 0 to 5 amps.
A) bubba says make sure everything is clean bright and tight, take the battery and alt to a parts store and have it checked.
B) bubba says confirm the belt is not slipping the pulley is tight on the alt and has the correct pulley/belt combination.
C) bubba says convert it back to 6V you were a dumarse to go 12V.
D) bubba says That's a normal amp meter reading the amps go up once started to replenish the battery's storage capacity once it satisfied it will show only the amperage needed to run the tractor. The voltmeter reading is mute means nuttin you wasted your time believe the amp meter its magic.
E) all of the above.
Pick one A B C D E.
give it a break!
Clifford B.
Member
(quoted from post at 21:04:02 07/15/16)(quoted from post at 20:18:58 07/15/16)
Because the amp meter has magic in it, Its has some kind of voodoo over its f lock they can not give it up and understand if the voltage is not there the stigma of that little needle movement is going to send them down a long road with no light at the end of the tunnel.
The original post is a very good example if he had gave a voltmeter reading he would not have had to sweet it out till the amperage came down...
Using amp meter readings only to determine charging system health is a pipe dream what are they smoking "prove me wrong I can handle it".
I can not get a answer to any of the questions it does not surprise me because of the lack of knowledge from staring at amp meters...
Nutter question with a voltage reading and amp meter reading tho the amp meter reading is mute and can be very misleading..
4) Seen question 1.2,3 I am getting disgusted after mo of dealing with this issue I brought a 12V wiring harness, a new alt and battery. Life was good but after 30 days I am back to were I started. I am about to the point of going back to 6V
I guess the pizz poor excuse of not having are being able to provide a volt reading is all I can see I have not done. I broke down and got a volt meter reading.
I start the tractor up the amp meter pegs out at 30 amps then settles down to around 0 to 5 amps the volt meter reads 13.5V at 30 amps then settles down to 13.2V at 0 to 5 amps.
A) bubba says make sure everything is clean bright and tight, take the battery and alt to a parts store and have it checked.
B) bubba says confirm the belt is not slipping the pulley is tight on the alt and has the correct pulley/belt combination.
C) bubba says convert it back to 6V you were a dumarse to go 12V.
D) bubba says That's a normal amp meter reading the amps go up once started to replenish the battery's storage capacity once it satisfied it will show only the amperage needed to run the tractor. The voltmeter reading is mute means nuttin you wasted your time believe the amp meter its magic.
E) all of the above.
Pick one A B C D E.
give it a break!
That's pretty much what I meant in my post..... :roll:
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
give it a break is not a option A B C D are E.
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
I think the only thing this post has done is prove how some
"volt meter lubbers" will go entirely overboard to prove they are
right, even after the man's tractor has been fixed without one.
I don't see how it helped him with his current situation at all.
Although the helpful links and thought provoking questions may
help others in the future.
I have made a mental note not to mention this subject again.
It appears to be a hot button similar to the EI discussions.
Or the 12V conversion discussions for that matter.
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
anwalker, Hobo is near Sanford if that helps.
If I were in the area and needed help, he'd be my choice.
If I were in the area and needed help, he'd be my choice.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
This is the reason starting and charging system issue post on the N board are pages long. Amp meter readers that don't use a voltmeter reading to compliment there diagnosis are guessers its the best they can do its all they know to do. They are not willing to learn how to properly diagnose a electrical system issue if you challenge them with a simple question they either beat you with there degree are run off and hide.
I don't care if your daddy taught you how to read a amp meter, you have 50 years of doing the same thing over and over again, you have a fleet of tractors with amp meters if you can not answer a simple question and not ask for a simple voltmeter reading you don't know yourself. You are relying on your best guess so your reply should state this is my guess.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
Hobo Rosser Garage, Sanford NC.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
I will reply to myself...
Some of you guys are complete dumasres... You are stuck in a world I don't understand most have my email if you can give me some valid data I am way off the charts are post it hear I can be made a believer...
Voltage measurements are used in pert neer every diagnostic evaluation used on starting, charging and electrical systems.
I don't understand why some of the educated here bypass them other than they failed at auto 101...
I don't know if I passed auto 101 I dropped out it was to damm slow for me.... but have learned to use ALL the data I can accumulate to asses the issue and make the call in a fast accurate way...
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
That is my point you can not make a educated evaluation with out a voltmeter reading. Its not possible its a guess :shock:
Another example
http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1279186
How do you use your tools to confirm a kill are we assuming are is there a way to confirm the amp meter reading. I wish it were as EZ as using a amp meter to confirm the systems health but it's not...
What part of this do the amp meter lubbers not understand. Just because a poster is unable to perform the tast why do we jump on the bandwagon and start guessing. Its his problem not ours to start guessing gather all the information then the proper battle plan can be draw.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...rnator-no-substitute-for-battery-charger.html
If he would have charged the battery before he put it back on the production line,,, :roll:
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
test to see if this link will work.
http://www.napaecatalog.com/app.php...ecatalogparse.aspx?catid_linecode_partnumber=
Looks like it does... To my amp meter luv'N buds with your amp meter do this test. page VII
will it do the test on page X
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