12volt wiring JD 40problem

[johnnybgood]

I have a JD model 40 I picked up and the previous owners at some time converted it to 12volt the wiring was a mess. i rewired it to a new 5 position switch. Followed a wiring diagram found on line problem I am having is with the switch in the off position it will still get spark. When I start it in position 2 starts but when I go to shut it off in off position it continues to run. Has the original 6 volt starter and selinod. Using coil with internal resistor 3 wire alternator. Any help would be appreciated

 

[Jim.ME]

It sounds like possibly the alternator is not wired correctly and is back feeding. Does your alternator look like this one? If so are you powering the #1 spade terminal from the 5 position switch or an oil pressure switch? If from the five position switch, do you have an "idiot light or diode in that circuit?

It might help to know what on line diagram you used. Can you post a link to it?

If it has a starter solenoid I don't believe it is original. Those had a mechanical starter switch mounted on the starter and activated by a pull rod as far as I know. The starter has to be modified to use a solenoid instead of the mechanical switch.

 

[old]

Te 3 wire alternator has the 2 wire plug. It is marked #1 and #2. In the wire marked #1 you need a diode or light bulb or resister or the excite circuit of the alternator which is the #1 wire will back feed the ignition

 

[johnnybgood]

Thanks all for fast reply. I followed the 6 volt to 12 volt conversion JD model 40 diagram from this website. I did not wire in an indicator light from the alternator. Is that my problem why off is not off? If it is i feel foolish as I have been trying too figure this out all day

 

[johnnybgood]

The alternator looks like that and tractor does not have a starter solenoid has original 6 volt starter. Did not wire in a alternator indicator light sounds like my mistake. I followed the 6 volt to 12 volt conversion post on this web site. Thanks for your help. Will pick up a light tomorrow.

 

[old]

If you do not have either a light bulb or diode or resister in the wire going to the #1 terminal on the alternator it will back feed the ignition system and will run till it runs out of gas.

I have many tractors with the Delco alternator on them and they are not all wired the same. Oliver S88 has a resister like the O'Reilly's VR-1 in line.
My A/C Speed Patrol has a double pole switch so when I turn on the head lights it also turns on the excite circuit.
But most of them have a simple diode in line so power can only flow one way and not back feed the ignition

 

[old]

Ah but not just any light bulb will work. Plus if the bulb burns out the alternator will not work and charge the battery. That is why I never use a light bulb but do use things like a resister or diode

 

[johnnybgood]

If I might ask what diode or resistor would I ask for at the auto parts store? Makes sense not to use a light bulb

 

[old]

Like I said in one of my other answer to you the O'Reilly's parts store part #VR-1 resister. Diodes due to Radio shack going under are harder to find

 

[johnnybgood]

(quoted from post at 16:06:49 12/30/19) Like I said in one of my other answer to you the O'Reilly's parts store part #VR-1 resister. Diodes due to Radio shack going under are harder to find

Thanks
Happy New year

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 18:04:39 12/30/19) Thanks all for fast reply. I followed the 6 volt to 12 volt conversion JD model 40 diagram from this website. I did not wire in an indicator light from the alternator. Is that my problem why off is not off? If it is i feel foolish as I have been trying too figure this out all day

I questioned the starter solenoid because you said it had the original 6 volt starter and solenoid.

That would be why off was not off. The wire from your switch starts the alternator charging. Once the alternator has started charging the #1 terminal will have power from the alternator. Since it has power from the alternator, once it has started charging, it sends power back to the switch via that wire and will supply power to anything, like the ignition connected to that circuit in the switch; unless there is something to prevent that back feed. That is what the light bulb, diode or resistor does. If you use a light bulb (use a regular bulb not an LED) you can tell it is working if the "idiot" light lights up when you turn the key on, without the engine running, and it goes out once the engine is running. Just as automobiles, John Deere, and others used for years. You may have to speed the engine up a bit to get it to start charging as often alternators turn slower on tractors than auto engines. The bulb holder needs to have two wires one for power and one for ground, and is wired into the switched wire in series. A grounded base (one wire) lamp assembly will not work for this. You can get indicator lamp assemblies at NAPA or other parts stores, if you chose to go with that option. This diagram may help you. Good luck.

 

[James Howell]

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]I have a JD model 40 I picked up and the previous owners at some time converted it to 12volt the wiring was a mess.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

We have a Model 40 S and a Model 40 T both of which were converted to a 12v system.

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]i rewired it to a new 5 position switch.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

Take a look at the information below on the 5 position switch.

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]Followed a wiring diagram found on line problem I am having is with the switch in the off position it will still get spark.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]When I start it in position 2 starts but when I go to shut it off in off position it continues to run.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

DISCLAIMER: This is only one method to troubleshoot this problem.

Take a look at the terminals on the back of the 5 position switch.

The only two terminals to check initially are the BAT and IGN.

Take a look at the photo below of the back of the panel.

Note the RED wire from the starter switch to the POSITIVE + terminal on the ammeter.

Also note the RED wire the ammeter to the BAT terminal on the ignition switch.

These two RED wires are the only source of power from the 12V battery to the ignition switch.

Remove the panel to expose the 5 terminals as shown above.

Turn the ignition switch to position 1 which is OFF.

This turns OFF power to position 2 which is the ignition.

Using a test light, touch the IGN terminal with the point of the test light.

If the test light shines, then the ignition switch may be faulty.

Double check the terminal again by removing the BLUE wire from the IGN terminal to the coil.

Using a test light, touch the IGN terminal with the point of the test light.

If the test light shines, then the ignition switch is faulty.

If the test light does not shine, then there is another source of power to the coil.

Hope this helps.

 

[jsborn]

(quoted from post at 18:50:08 12/30/19) If I might ask what diode or resistor would I ask for at the auto parts store? Makes sense not to use a light bulb

I used a [b:85e8e0d526]1N4007[/b:85e8e0d526] diode . It is over kill but readily available on Amazon or Google for less than a dollar.

Remember "Google is your friend" LOL

 

[johnnybgood]

Thanks all this has been a real help will let you know how I make out

 

[Hotflashjr]

James - where do you get your gauges from that you use? I need both ammeter and temp for my 40 I picked up this year. Not many choices around on the temp gauge and all seem to have a really long lead.

 

[James Howell]

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]all seem to have a really long lead[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

Agree.

Not sure where I bought this one.

Most come from eBay; most are just for decoration only.

 

[jd2cylman]

(quoted from post at 08:28:12 12/31/19) James - where do you get your gauges from that you use? I need both ammeter and temp for my 40 I picked up this year. Not many choices around on the temp gauge and all seem to have a really long lead.

I'm not James, but the best gauges to get are from Evergreen Restoration. Jerry is a good guy. https://evergreengauges.business.site/
High quality and decent price.[/url]

 

[johnnybgood]

(quoted from post at 07:28:12 12/31/19) James - where do you get your gauges from that you use? I need both ammeter and temp for my 40 I picked up this year. Not many choices around on the temp gauge and all seem to have a really long lead.

If I remember correctly I got them from external link. Temp lead fit well

 

[Hotflashjr]

With how accurate at times even a new gauge can be (or not be) having them as decoration is a good way of putting it. It still makes me nervous when they do not work at all. I do not currently have any tractors "just for looking at" as my son puts it.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 12:52:37 12/31/19) With how accurate at times even a new gauge can be (or not be) having them as decoration is a good way of putting it. It still makes me nervous when they do not work at all. I do not currently have any tractors "just for looking at" as my son puts it.

If you are not concerned with having an original face, Summit Racing is one place that carries the Stewart Warner gauge line.

 

[johnnybgood]

(quoted from post at 07:28:12 12/31/19) James - where do you get your gauges from that you use? I need both ammeter and temp for my 40 I picked up this year. Not many choices around on the temp gauge and all seem to have a really long lead.

I got both amp and temp gauge from external link carry a lot of reproduction parts. Had to order resistor online none of my local auto parts stores had a clue as to what I was talking about

 

[johnnybgood]

(quoted from post at 07:28:12 12/31/19) James - where do you get your gauges from that you use? I need both ammeter and temp for my 40 I picked up this year. Not many choices around on the temp gauge and all seem to have a really long lead.

external link got both

 

[Jim.ME]

johnnybgood,

Just an FYI. Your last post does not show in the Modern View at all. From looking at it in classic it looks like you put something for a link to where you bought parts. There are filters that block some of those if they are sources YT sees as competitors to their store. Just so you know.

 

[johnnybgood]

(quoted from post at 17:03:30 01/01/20) johnnybgood,

Just an FYI. Your last post does not show in the Modern View at all. From looking at it in classic it looks like you put something for a link to where you bought parts. There are filters that block some of those if they are sources YT sees as competitors to their store. Just so you know.

wondered why it did not post will remember in the future