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155D Not Starting -- Please Help

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joegoodrich-HT

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I ran the tractor yesterday for about 2 hours. It did not skip a beat. I parked it and came out this morning and the tractor will not start. The tractor has always been a little hard to start but the thermostart feauture does not function properly.

I filled it up with diesel (It was about 1/2 full -- so not empty).

I changed the fuel filter and bled the fuel system. (I captured the fuel in the fuel bowl and it did not separate -- so no indication of water in the fuel--plus the old filter was only about 3 month old)

When bleeding the system, I first turned on the fuel supply, cracked both bleeder screws on the filter housing. Then opened the bleeder screw at the injection pump. All three ran clear.

I cracked loose (just barely threaded in) the steel lines up near the injectors and cranked the engine. At first there was no fuel then I would get an occasional drip out of each. I repeated this until every couple of seconds more fuel would drip out (a large drip). And yes the accelerator handle was pushed to WOT.

Is this supposed to be a continuous fuel stream when these are cracked open and engine cranking?

I also found that the fuel return lines from the injector to the tank are brittle (broke one). What type of fuel line do I need to use to replace them?

Thanks!
 
Just use plain old fuel line, but I would go back and re-bleed. It doesn't sound like you did it correctly. You need to bleed the first screw, then close it before opening the second, then the third., I have never had to open the injector lines in 9 years of ownership, and replacing about 4 filters and bleeding.
 
Why don't you take advantage of the fact that you have an export model, and order an English factory Service Manual for it. Usually, proper bleeding is all it takes, but you might want to review the exact procedure. If that doesn't do it, the next target would be air -- in and out.

You don't need proper copper line for that, but for the small extra cost, why take a chance. The main thing is how the line connects on yours, so bring a sample of the line -- and the fittings -- to a supply store.
 
I wasn't clear in my first post. I did bleed the system per the manual. I did do the screws one at a time. 1st screw on the filter, then the second...then I moved on to the one on the injection pump.

I guess it sounded like I opened all 3 at once in my first post.

Sorry
 
It still could be fuel, likely pump or injectors. But you could eliminate air as the problem by trying it (briefly) without the air filter, then without the exhaust pipe (four bolts).
 
You should see a pulse of fuel out of each line as it is cranking, back and forth. if there is fuel, it "should" start. Make sure your air cleaner is good and clean. If so, 1 other trick is to pull off the muffler. You would be surprised at how many units we have seen this year alone not wanting to start/run because of a restricted exhaust.
 
If the exhaust is restricted (and it's not something obvious like a mouse nest), what are alternatives to replacing it? I'd bang it on the ground, and put a sealed air hose to the ends, but I wondered if you experts had a better way of trying to clear it.
 
I have bled the fuel system once again (screws in order from 1st Filter Screw, 2nd Filter Screw and then Preinjection Pump) Fuel runs clear each time -- No air bubbles. Also unit has new fuel filter.

I pulled the steel fuel lines off at the injectors and cranked the engine. I am getting a pulse of fuel from each injector line as the engine is cranking. The fuel looks clean, no bubbles and no foam.

I have taken off the air cleaner and taken off the exhaust to make sure neither is plugged.

I reinstalled the fuel lines at the injectors and cranked the engine. (First without compression to get it spinning) The engine seems to want to start but seems starved for fuel.

I'm know thinking plugged injectors. I'm going to order the injector removal tool and the compression tester to try and get to the bottom of this.

***HISTORY***
The tractor has unknown hours on it. It says 560 on the meter but the meter cable was broken when we got the tractor, now repaired. I have noticed quite a bit of blow by coming out of the lower crank case vent tube under the front of the tractor lately.

The tractor has always been hard to start. We have often had to use a little WD40 or Ether to get it going. Once we get it running we can shut it off throughout the day and it will fire right up easily. The tractor seems to have plenty of power once its running -- its just a cold blooded engine.

The thermostart is not functional. I am getting ready to install a new one.
 
Unless you are getting strong pulses out of the pump, it could have a problem. It puts out about 2000psi, which, if you are familiar with a 2000psi pressure washer, that's a lot of pressure, thus the steel fuel lines. did you try tapping on the pump as Aaron suggested? If you remove the injectors you can install them upside down in the fittings and check the spray pattern. Should be a solid cone.
 
Well I may still have a pump problem then. I don't think they are 2000 psi pulses. They squirt fuel a couple inches... I think 2000psi would shoot the fuel much more than that.

I did try the hammer trick while cranking.

I will try to post a youtube video of the fuel squirts so maybe someone can tell me if it looks normal or not.

My true feeling is this is a fuel pressure problem.

Just incase I have to remove the injection pump to send it out for service... I reviewed the Service Manual for the Removal of the Injection Pump. Under 87. REMOVE AND REINSTALL it basically says to clean area around pump, remove in/out fuel lines and unbolt from timing cover. It reminds you to not loose timing shims. It doesn't mention dealing with the governor. What am I missing?
 
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems as if your pump output gets stronger the more you bleed the lines.
 
Norm,
No I originally referred to it just dripping out...but that was when I just cracked the lines so they leaked out in an attempt to bleed the system.

This time I completely loosened the retaining nut and pulled the metal fuel line out of the injector so I could what the pulse of fuel come out of the line.

Video link to follow later today.
 
Got it running. A diesel tech told me to try and pull start the tractor, since I had fuel coming out of each high pressure line.

I pulled the tractor and dumped the clutch and got it running.

This all might be caused by a bad battery. Battery has always been left on float charger but it must be tired. I will replace the battery tomorrow. What size cranking amps do I need. My service manual & owners manual are at my office. It currently has a battery with 424 CCA.

I still think I also have a tired motor -- unknown hours. It runs good once started. I am getting a lot of blow by out of the crank case vent.

See video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLwUS_QGOhU

Does this mean I need a ring job and head gasket?

Another video of exhaust:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v49_Dk3CA94
 
My guess is that you have very low compression. That is a lot of blow-by. Pull starting spins the engine much faster than the starter can. Probably need at least new rings.
 
I ordered Injector Removal tool and compression tester from Hoye and am in the process of trying to check the compression of each cylinder.

In order to check compression, I have to remove the injector. I have removed the high pressure fuel line, removed injector bleed line by removing banjo bolt on top.

It looks like I next need to remove the top cap on the injector in order to be able to thread the injector removal tool into the top of the injector. The issue I'm having is removing the cap in the injector. The studs that come out of the block to hold down the injector hold down clamp are in the way of getting a wrench on top of the injector.

Am I on track here? Is removing the stud part of the process? What are your recommendations for removing the studs. Do I just use a vice grip down low and twist them out? I sprayed penetrating oil on them today --so I will try again tomorrow after it soaks in.

I have the shop manual for the tractor. I doesn't seem very helpful in answering these questions, it does show an "exploded view" of the injector. When I remove the cap is the spring ect. inside the injector going to want to explode on me?
 
***UPDATE***

I got the injectors out, I had to remove the studs that hold down the injectors inorder to split the injector and use the injector removal tool. The studs were very difficult to remove -- they seemed frozen into the head. I soaked them with pb blaster for a couple of days. I finally got them out, but bent one of them. Hopefully Hoye Stocks them. The injector removal tool worked like a dream.

Compression on front cylinder is 200 and rear cylinder is 380. Explains hard start issue.

I might not have done the compression check correctly for the front cylinder. I had both injectors out when I checked the front cylinder. The Shop Manual doesn't cover this. I have read that you should use the compression tester in place of one injector while the other injector is in the head.

I hooked the injectors up out of the head and fired them onto cardboard. The front injector (that was out of the cylinder with compression of 200) produced a fine mist.

The injector that was out of the rear cylinder (one with 380 compression) seemed to drip instead of mist.

Tonight I drained the oil, drained radiator. Removed fan assembly. Removed the valve cover and head. This came apart pretty quick, only took about 30 minutes.

Next step is to remove the loader cross member and then remove the oil pan so I can start removing the pistons.

I plan on doing a ring job and sending the head out to the machine shop, then replace both injectors on reassembly.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Hello . I am in the same boat as you I just did a compression check on my 186D and compression was 300 -360-300 3 cylinders. I took all the injectors out when I did my compression check. so there was no back pressure and the motor would spin faster . all these cylinders are separate so I do not know why you would have to leave the injectors in while you do a compression check .. anyway I have not gotten my head off yet. because I came down with a bad cold ,But I have everything off up to the head And started to take head off but got sick ..I was thinking of taking some video and putting on youtube .I am also no expert on these diesel engines . but I have taken many motorcycle engines apart and split there blocks ect. so It does not look to hard ..I will email my progress As I go along Thanks (Roland)
 
Sorry for the delayed reply but you are doing great. There should have been an instruction sheet with the tester but to remove those studs you can lock 2 nuts together on the stud & then screw them out. That works pretty good.

You can test the compression with the other injector(s) in or out. It wont matter other than allow the engine to turn faster.
 
***UPDATE***

Loader cross member off, Oil Pan off, and pistons out. Looks like a call to Hoye on Monday to order parts.

I will continue to document the process for others if there is an interest. So far this has been a pretty easy project.

Took about 30 minutes to take the head off. About 1.5 hours to get the pistons out (all the time was dealing with loader and oil pan). I marked the pistons so they will go back in with the same orientation and same cylinder as they came out of. I also marked bearing caps so they go back on the correct connecting rod and with correct orientation.

PISTON and RINGS -- Rings intact, Rings probably just worn out.
<IMG src="http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/Piston.jpg"><s></e></IMG>

Top of Block -- Need to clean off gasket material
<IMG src="http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/TopofBlock.jpg"><s>[img]</s>[URL url="http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/TopofBlock.jpg"]<LINK_TEXT text="http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx22 ... fBlock.jpg">http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/TopofBlock.jpg</LINK_TEXT>[/URL]<e></s><LINK_TEXT text="http://i758.photob...xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/Head.jpg</LINK_TEXT><e>[/img]</e></IMG>


Bottom of Head -- valves look carboned up. The rear cylinder looks worse especially around the injector cone.
<IMG src="http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/Valves.jpg"><s>
URL]<e>
</e></IMG>[/img]
 
Yes, I will be honing the cylinder sleeve walls. They feel smooth now but I will run the hone up and down to make sure they are clean and smooth.
 
***UPDATE***

Before I ordered parts I thought I better take one final inventory of parts needed. I removed the rings from the piston and found that the sides of both pistons were cracked along the groves where the rings go. When I removed the rings, the sides of the piston just fell apart.

Looks like 2 new pistons are in order. The tractor has always been hard to start when cold. The thermostart has never worked (which I have a new one in stock to replace it) The previous owner said he usually had to use starter fluid and we have had to use it a few times. I suspect the explosion caused by the starter fluid is what eventually cracked the pistons.


<IMG src="http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/joegoodrich/Yanmar/BrokenCylinder.jpg"><s>
URL]<e>
</e></IMG>
 
I am currently having the same starting problem. Compression was 200psi dry and 400 plus wet. Injectors tested at local diesel shop with pressure and spray pattern checking OK. Should I be getting fuel flow in the return lines while cranking???? Wants to run at idle for 4or5 seconds but then dies.
 
What is the definition of wet and dry? No, I don't think you would necessarily get fuel flow in the return lines while cranking.
 
Dry cylinder is compression test done with out adding engine oil to the top of the cylinder/piston. Wet is compression test don
e after adding oil to allow the rings to seat better to the cylinder walls. question: will pressurizing the gravity feed fuel system help with fuel flow/delivery 4 or 5 psi???
 
<QUOTE author="831bob831"><s>
</s>Dry cylinder is compression test done with out adding engine oil to the top of the cylinder/piston. Wet is compression test don
e after adding oil to allow the rings to seat better to the cylinder walls. question: will pressurizing the gravity feed fuel system help with fuel flow/delivery 4 or 5 psi???<e>
Click to expand...
/e></QUOTE>

It might, but I doubt it's ever been tried before. Why do you think you have a fuel delivery problem?
 
Don't know how my answer -- which was for someone else who asked about battery specs -- ended up here. The same thing happened once before.
 
Thinking i have enough fuel volume for starting but not enough fuel for running. At this point i am shooting in the dark. I 'am going to order the repair manual on monday because i need information on the injector pump and how to remove and check timing. Any sugestions would be appricated.
 
" all these cylinders are separate so I do not know why you would have to leave the injectors in while you do a compression check .. "

You don't HAVE to leave them in or remove any that you are not testing. It's just easier to leave them in, as you only need 1 bad reading to know you have a problem. No need to test the others.
 
<QUOTE author="Guest"><s>
</s>Thinking i have enough fuel volume for starting but not enough fuel for running. At this point i am shooting in the dark. I 'am going to order the repair manual on monday because i need information on the injector pump and how to remove and check timing. Any sugestions would be appricated.<e>
Click to expand...
/e></QUOTE>

Why look any further than 200psi compression, when you need at least 500psi? The only reason for a "wet" compression test is to prove bad rings, which you did. The only pump timing problem would be if someone removed it and didn't replace correct # of shims.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I replaced the crank, all bearings, one rod, and rings about 100 working hours ago. [friend borrowed tractor and ran it low on oil and seized rod}. NOTE NO real blow buy, looks like you think i need to re-ring the engine again.
 
The injector pump has never been off the engine and i have had the tractor 25 years. Just doesn't make sense that it ran fine and go to start it 2 weeks later and there is not enough compression to run. Comments????
 
The 200# compression is what makes it look like a ring job. 200# compression and no blow by seems unusual to me. Does your tractor use much oil now since your overhaul? I've read your posts over and over and don't see what kind of fuel flow you are getting if you crack your fuel line at the injector. Are you getting good pressure there? I read on a post somewhere someone took the fuel line completely loose at the injector and didn't get a high pressure spray. They couldn't understand why. Duh! I don't think the injector pump is a high volume pump but rather a high pressure pump. After reading this it sounds a little smarty, I don't mean it to be that way. <E>:)</E>
 
Yes it does use some oil. When I crack the fuel line at the injector to blead the air out there is spurts of fuel but not a lot of vollume, i think this is normal. I ordered up ring sets, rod bearings and gaskets yesterday. Be here next week. The tech at Hoye confirmed I need 500psi compression to run, 450psi will make for hard starting, and 400psi for no start. I have one at 450 and one at 400 wet. Comments are appricated. Will keep posting with what happens until it starts. Thanks guys!!!!!
 
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