1601D with starting issues

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

My tractor has unusual starting issues. With a brand new 700 CCA battery, and thouroughlly cleaned (sandpaper) terminals and mounting surfaces, it just won't even try to bump over most of the time. Sometimes it will turn over and starts, though it sounds like soemthing is maybe lightly rubbing maybe in the starter. It's a faint noise so I'm not 100% sure what I'm hearing.

It has 1/0 battery cable with high quality terminals that were lead-soldered then shrinkwrapped.

What could that almost mechanical sounding noise be.. do starters ever go bad in these old 3 cyl diesels?

 

[bmaverick]

My tractor has unusual starting issues. With a brand new 700 CCA battery, and thouroughlly cleaned (sandpaper) terminals and mounting surfaces, it just won't even try to bump over most of the time. Sometimes it will turn over and starts, though it sounds like soemthing is maybe lightly rubbing maybe in the starter. It's a faint noise so I'm not 100% sure what I'm hearing.

It has 1/0 battery cable with high quality terminals that were lead-soldered then shrinkwrapped.

What could that almost mechanical sounding noise be.. do starters ever go bad in these old 3 cyl diesels?

If the YM1601D has the original starter, think about it, the starter is over 40 years old. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

Willing to consider that, but what are symptoms of a bad starter?

 

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

Lucky me, I found a new replacement starter in my box of spares, bought it in 2019, $321 per receipt. I used to buy up common parts like that just to have on hand.
I'll try to get it swapped out tomorrow and report back.

 

[bmaverick]

Lucky me, I found a new replacement starter in my box of spares, bought it in 2019, $321 per receipt. I used to buy up common parts like that just to have on hand.
I'll try to get it swapped out tomorrow and report back.

You have a plan.

Your starter is overprice, even for being pre-nnalert era.

Even at today's creep of inflation, we are seeing almost $110.
You could of had 3X starters new on the shelf.

https://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-SND0413-Starter-Engines/dp/B00QVCFF7Y?th=1

 

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

The new starter helped a bit. Still have a remaining issue of when engaging the stater at the keyswitch, sometimes nothing happens. If I re-engage the switch a couple times it eventually bumps off (much faster now with the new starter)

 

[bmaverick]

Chances are, there is possible corrosion at the terminals on the ignition switch or the VR is giving out.

Spray CRC Electronics cleaner in the ignition key slot. Then insert the key, work it around without starting the tractor.
Then a few mins later try starting the tractor normally.

If the problem persists, you will need to take the access panel off of the lower dash and look at the wiring to the ignition switch and the VR.

Look for corrosion, loose terminal connections, burnt wires, etc. Even rodents markings of chewed wires.

 

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

The mystery deepens.
I used the tractor for a couple hours yesterday moving mulch. Turned it off at least a half dozen times, it started okay, sometimes iwth the "turn switch twice" technique mentioned abouve.

Today I start it up to let it get warm for an oil change.

Changed oil. Did not touch a single electric part or wire.

got new oil and filter in place and started the tractor to get it flowing, and then turned it off to check oil level
added a touch more

started again

and the starter motor would not stop. The gear wasn't engaged to it was just spinning freely. It startled me a little. Quickly disconnected battery positive.

The blade connector on top tells the gear to engage the flywheel, so disconnecting it didn't do anything

I then removed the access panel to check for vermin or any frayed wires, found none. Documented where each wire goes on my switch, then removed the switch.

Put termal back to battery, and immediately the starter motor starts to spin again.

Never seen this happen before. It's a brand new starter. No wire damage or corrosion anywhere that I can see.

Any ideas on what could cause this?

 

[bmaverick]

The mystery deepens.
I used the tractor for a couple hours yesterday moving mulch. Turned it off at least a half dozen times, it started okay, sometimes iwth the "turn switch twice" technique mentioned abouve.

Today I start it up to let it get warm for an oil change.

Changed oil. Did not touch a single electric part or wire.

got new oil and filter in place and started the tractor to get it flowing, and then turned it off to check oil level
added a touch more

started again

and the starter motor would not stop. The gear wasn't engaged to it was just spinning freely. It startled me a little. Quickly disconnected battery positive.

The blade connector on top tells the gear to engage the flywheel, so disconnecting it didn't do anything

I then removed the access panel to check for vermin or any frayed wires, found none. Documented where each wire goes on my switch, then removed the switch.

Put termal back to battery, and immediately the starter motor starts to spin again.

Never seen this happen before. It's a brand new starter. No wire damage or corrosion anywhere that I can see.

Any ideas on what could cause this?

OK, I would assume you still have the original starter.

Swap the original starter back in and see if it runs-on as well.
If not, then the new starter is faulty.
If it does spin non-stop like the newer one, there is a possible short in the ignition or the VR.

 

[bmaverick]

The mystery deepens.
I used the tractor for a couple hours yesterday moving mulch. Turned it off at least a half dozen times, it started okay, sometimes iwth the "turn switch twice" technique mentioned abouve.

Today I start it up to let it get warm for an oil change.

Changed oil. Did not touch a single electric part or wire.

got new oil and filter in place and started the tractor to get it flowing, and then turned it off to check oil level
added a touch more

started again

and the starter motor would not stop. The gear wasn't engaged to it was just spinning freely. It startled me a little. Quickly disconnected battery positive.

The blade connector on top tells the gear to engage the flywheel, so disconnecting it didn't do anything

I then removed the access panel to check for vermin or any frayed wires, found none. Documented where each wire goes on my switch, then removed the switch.

Put termal back to battery, and immediately the starter motor starts to spin again.

Never seen this happen before. It's a brand new starter. No wire damage or corrosion anywhere that I can see.

Any ideas on what could cause this?

Wait, in the video you have the terminal connections removed from the ignition switch? Then the VR will not flow the circuit and the starter will run-on.

Also, those terminals look corroded to me.

 

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

The old starter does not have the same behavior. Even off the tractor the new starter spins when I apply power to the positive lug.

$321 to Hoye for cheaply made

There's no actual corrosion on any of the key switch terminals however there is a little bit of rust on the outer surface. Where the connection was is metal to metal. I will regardless clean the terminals adequately, but I don't think that that's the problem with the starter, since there was good shiny metal to shiny metal on each of the terminals at both the starter and key switch

There's a starter rebuild shop 45 mins from me so debating whether I should just take this old starter and have them rebuild it. That or buy another $100 Chinese starter that might or might not work

 

[Powered By IH]

There's a starter rebuild shop 45 mins from me so debating whether I should just take this old starter and have them rebuild it. That or buy another $100 Chinese starter that might or might not work

REBUILD, that way you can guarantee it will work.
Plus it will be cheaper than sinking more money into a new Chinese starter that may or may not work.

 

[Jim.ME]

It sounds like the contacts, inside the solenoid, for the motor welded themselves together. The pull in coil moves the drive into the ring gear and pushes a disc into the contacts for the battery cable and starter motor studs inside the solenoid. Since the drive is dropping out of the ring gear, it appears the pull in coil is releasing, so it is unlikely to be the switch.

A new solenoid may fix it.

 

[agirlandhertractor-HT]

Got another new starter, and an ignition switch from Southern Global Tractor Supply. The starter mounting lip was not machined with precision.. it was very very tight going in. But, it appears to work. Tractor started up just fine.