165 Mf Continetal gas

[Need2learn]

My 165 Massey Ferguson is giving me major problems. It started 6 months ago. Started running rough, back firing and sputtering. First thing I took the carburetor off and cleaned it several times. Worked no better. New wires, plugs, coil, distributor cap, points and condenser. Cleaned timing dawgs in distributor. At times worked better but another day started same crap running rough etc. Rebuilt the carburetor and put on new power injector. No better. At the end replaced marvel shebbar carburetor with a new Zenith carburetor. Now idles good but when the governor calls for fuel starts running rough etc again. Anybody have any ideas please? At wits end!! Thanks

 

[47fivewindow]

Some thoughts. Make sure the points are not set too tight. BTDT. Check for play in the dist drive bushing. Put the old condenser back in.

 

[used red MN]

My 165 Massey Ferguson is giving me major problems. It started 6 months ago. Started running rough, back firing and sputtering. First thing I took the carburetor off and cleaned it several times. Worked no better. New wires, plugs, coil, distributor cap, points and condenser. Cleaned timing dawgs in distributor. At times worked better but another day started same crap running rough etc. Rebuilt the carburetor and put on new power injector. No better. At the end replaced marvel shebbar carburetor with a new Zenith carburetor. Now idles good but when the governor calls for fuel starts running rough etc again. Anybody have any ideas please? At wits end!! Thanks

Hello N2L, welcome to YT! This may be hard to explain but do you think it could be not enough fuel flow to the carb?
Idles good.. not much fuel being used.
governor calls for fuel starts running rough… is this immediate or does it have power for a bit then start running bad?
If there is power for a bit 30 seconds maybe a minute, that is an indication of lack adequate fuel flow. This is because there is some reserve in the carb bowl. When that level drops your power loss comes on.
I don’t think your tractor has a fuel pump if it doesn’t this is the test for gravity flow systems. You can test to see if the volume of fuel that is coming into the carb is adequate. When tested new under a full load you tractor uses in the upper 3 gallon an hour to 4 range. Calculated a pint in 2 minutes is 3.75 gph. Test the flow out of the drain plug on the carb. Have the container ready and a timer. Open the plug but don’t catch the initial flow let it drain for 5 seconds or so then start catching it and start the timer. The 5 second delay lets the reserve in the carb bowl drain off that can’t be included in the measure. You’re going to have to be fairly accurate doing this test because you may be using nearly the full amount of fuel as was taken in the full load test.
Edit: Forgot I wanted to ask what a “power injector” is? Sounds like they might come in handy?

 

[Need2learn]

So I did put old points and condenser back in. Tricky to get it to set to where the points are exactly wide open since can’t get a wrench on the crank. What is BTDT?
On the fuel issue. I took feed off a carburetor and run it for 5 minutes into a Gerry can till tank was empty. Appears to me like great fuel flow. For some reason it appears to be a flooding issue as it puts out black smoke when it breaks down.If You bring up a picture of the carb on this tractor you’ll see the power injector at bottom next to Bowel drain.done compresson test 169 on all cylinders with no leak down. Thanks guys. I’ll wait for more advice.

 

[flying belgian]

I'm going with problem at the points.

 

[Gambles]

What is BTDT? Been There, Done That.

 

[Need2learn]

Just an FYI the compression was 160. Not 169. Sorry for the confusion

 

[used red MN]

That is an unusually high compression reading. Probably more of a fault of the tester gauge inaccuracies, 110-130 would be a more believable numbers. You “power injector” is the “Adjuster Assembly Main Jet” see this link to
AGCO MF 165 parts catalog go to section 73 or 74
If it puts out black smoke that is a rich mixture symptom. Tighten the main jet screw in counting its turns and lightly seat it, record the number of turns. Then turn it back out to the same position, then turn it in a half turn and see if your problem is better. If still blowing black smoke turn it in another half turn. Let us know the results.
What are “timing dawgs”? Maybe the distributor cap internal electrodes? See link Auto article with distributor cap info
Are you in the US of A?

 

[Need2learn]

Thanks for the info. If the Tack is working correctly the tractor only has 1700 hours on it seems to have being well looked after but it must have set for a long time unused. So was tiring to move stuff with it yesterday and wasn't good, flooding badly. My neighbor came by Hes handy at old stuff We adjusted the power injector very slightly and it improved it 90%. so going to see today what it does. Will keep your main jet screw advice handy for next move.
thanks again

 

[used red MN]

Sounds like progress. I would like to see this picture of your carb that calls that a “power injector”… it is called the “main jet needle” some call it a “load screw” Was I correct about the “distributor dawgs”? If you don’t know the real name of a part it is better to give a short description “little brass contacts inside the distributor cap” instead of making up a name you think sounds good. Sure it is a little more typing but you’re not charged by the word. The description is far better than a made up name in terms of someone helping you figure out something by your wording. Just a helpful tip.

 

[Jim.ME]

Welcome to the forums.

Below is a link to the online MF165 parts book, free to use, on the AGCO parts site. If you look down the index on the left, pages 73 and 74 have the breakdowns for both carbs. The Marvel Schebler is on page 73 and the Zenith is on page 74. Those diagrams will help you with proper names for things and provide a reference point you can give if needed. The parts book will likely help you with other things on your tractor as well. You should invest in the Operator's Manual and the Service manual for it.

MF 165 Parts Book

 

[Need2learn]

Thanks, I did purchase both manuals. I'll look at this parts book.

 

[da.bees]

New condensers have a reputation of being defective right out of the box so trying more than one has become common practice. Have you tried running it without air filter tube on intake? There might be an obstruction inside the filter or tube. Have you ran a wire from battery to coil to see if 12 volt supply to coil is being interrupted/shorting/losing connection? I suggest hanging on to that MS carb,they work well and are hard to find. You can rotate engine with large screwdriver through clutch/flywheel inspection hole. Since compression is good I doubt there is a problem but as last resort I'd check rocker arm-valve clearance. Don't let it fluster you,all of us have been in the same position more than once.

 

[DanielW]

You mentioned it's having issues when the governor calls for fuel? A very common problem on a lot of continentals was the governor being a little 'hyper-active': They would open way too far and too fast when they called for fuel, and actually end up stalling out the tractor or causing it to run erratically. It made it seem like it was lacking power or not getting enough fuel, but it was actually the opposite. I don't know if the governor on the Continental engine used on the 165 was the same type, but a lot of Continentals of that era had the same type of governor, so it might be,

Have someone watch the governor/throttle linkage when you let off the clutch and start to move. If it opens up fully and fast, chances are it needs adjustment. If it's the type of governor I'm thinking of, there's a bolt with a jam nut at the front of the governor. It puts a little bit of friction into the governor mechanism to 'calm it down' a little bit. Loosen the jam nut and tighten the bolt 1/2 turn at a time , testing after each adjustment to see if it's better.

 

[Need2learn]

I used new and old condenser, run it with no filter and also run wire direct from battery yo coil early on in the investigation. Will try the clutch move to get it up to lobe in distributor. I find the hyper-active governor a place to investigate which I will check out. Thanks for the info will report results when I do more research.