1850 Narrow Front

[AU2001]

Have 1850 that was originally narrow front. Currently has Oliver wide front and wanting to convert it back. I have found a narrow front from an 1800. Are they the same?

 

[rrlund]

Yes. I don't THINK there was any difference in the A series with shaft steering. 99.9999% sure you're good if you just use the 1850 steering cylinder if that's the case.

 

[ziffel]

I know where there is a narrow front from an 1850. No Hubs or wheels but they should fit from your wide front. Where are you? We are in SW Wisc.

 

[AU2001]

North Alabama. The other front end is in PA so it probably won't be much difference.

 

[ziffel]

I think it is for sale. It has been sitting for a few years. This guy doesn't like narrow fronts. I changed this one for him when he bought the tractor. It is a heavy hunk of iron and shipping would break you. Best tied in the back of a pickup.

 

[AU2001]

Understand what you are saying about shipping but that it is only way I will be able to do this. I won't be able to pick it up myself. Any idea what it weights and would it go on a standard pallet? I can get the 1800 front shipped if there isn't interest in shipping the 1850 front.

 

[scootergmc]

Did you try calling any of the big salvage yards? Maibach? All States Ag Parts, etc.? Any places closer to you? I'm sure you'd probably be able to find something much closer.

 

[ziffel]

Picking it up in person is the best option for us.

 

[AU2001]

Understand, but it isn't feasible for me to do it that way. I will have to pursue the 1800 front. Thanks for letting me know though.

 

[AU2001]

I tried All State. They did not have one. I am working with another major yard now who is willing to ship. My shipping clerk can arrange the shipping at a company discount for me. I have been quoted $975 for
the front plus whatever my clerk can get the shipping for. Don't know if this is high or not.

Olivers were not popular in this area. There were two dealers here. One was in our county seat and the other in a small community nearby called Capshaw. My dad has told me about the Capshaw dealer before. It
was a very small dealer. They didn't sell many tractors but sold lots of plows to people who used other tractor brands. The tractor I'm dealing with was sold new through Russel Mason Tractor in Winchester, TN.
It was bought new by a guy north of us.

I could probably make a 1 day round trip to pickup a front end myself...to Kentucky or somewhere like that. But I can't go to Pennsylvania or Wisconsin.....elderly father that I have to keep an eye on. I
haven't made any commitments yet. Still searching for options.

 

[scootergmc]

Try contacting member 1206SWMO. A couple years ago he had at least one available. He is in Missouri though.

 

[rrlund]

$975 !!??? How do some people sleep at night?!

If I wanted to sell one and somebody laid a hundred dollar bill in my hand I'd shake his hand so hard I'd dislocate his shoulder. I bought a wide front out from under a White 2-105 a few years ago, complete with the steering cylinder, hubs, and tires and wheels for $200. That's the one with the heavy spindles and lip seals in the hubs. One parts guy offered me one from an Oliver, said he'd give me a choice from 3 for $350. Another guy here advertises them for $500 but I don't know that he's ever sold one for that. A narrow front is just a boat anchor, something you throw on the next load going to the crusher. The only reason I don't want to sell the one I have is that I have a project in mind when I find the right tractor to use for it.

 

[scootergmc]

Hey now- I like narrow fronts. I hate tricycles.

 

[AU2001]

Well that is what I was thinking but I wasn't sure. About the only demand I've seen for a narrow fronts now is for an original restoration. Maybe a few practical needs like fast turning with a hay rake. We mainly have IH. I know an IH narrow front isn't that high even though they may not be quite as robust looking as the Oliver. I have seen past postings on here and saw no pricing that high. Less than $500 is what I have seen. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

A NF set up for an Allis Chalmers 190 bought $10,000 at an auction at New Holland PA a couple years ago.Legitimate sale AC 190 and 180 NF tractors bring big $$$,NF are getting to be popular.

 

[AU2001]

You are talking about just the narrow front end?

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Just the NF no tractor,it did come with all the PS lines.

 

[oldwrencher]

i sold one two years ago for $250 and threw in two extra hubs.I do have a wide front now off a 2-110 I would like to sell.

 

[AU2001]

Okay Thanks. I just checked this. According to what I found the narrow front for the 190XT is supposedly rare. I don't know myself. But rarity may have played into the $10,000. Hopefully 1850 narrow front ends aren't rare. They don't appear to be. But I understand pricing changes to a certain degree. I have an IH 1456 that I bought around 2003. They are a lot higher now than they were then. Still shopping around.

 

[rrlund]

Anything from a 1550 or 1600 on up through the 1955 will work. Widen your search. Some of the bigger ones might have larger spindles, but my 1850 wide front, 1550 wide front, 1600 wide front and 1600 narrow front all use the same hubs and bearings.

 

[rrlund]

Stories like that are how common stuff gets priced so insanely high.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Apparently there are a lot of people with a lot of extra money around these days,I guess the owner of the 190 NF was happy and the buyer too, good for them.

 

[J Hamilton]

I guess thats a good example of when two fools meet

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Why would you say fools? Many times I've seen what people have said is an outrageous price for something only to be considered a real bargain a while later.

 

[rrlund]

Trouble is, somebody will have one for a D19 or something else that's common and try to get some stupid high price for it by comparing apples to oranges. I don't know where this high price for an Oliver 4 digit narrow front came from unless one real desperate person met somebody without a conscience and that set a new price threshold.

 

[rrlund]

The only way you'll get one at a reasonable price will be to go get it. Trucking will make it cost prohibitive even if somebody gave you one free. I had a greenhouse kit trucked up here to Michigan this spring from Cookeville Tennessee. I could have easily hauled 10 of them in my pickup. It cost me $500 to have it shipped. I could have driven down there, got a nice hotel for a night, stopped in Lexington for a night and spent time with family and made a nice little mini vacation out of it for less.

 

[AU2001]

If desperation on my part was detected, I don't know how. All communication has been by email so far and I made no indication that I had only one lead. Personally I think I'm just dealing with a salesman who doesn't have much experience with pricing older parts. I ran into a similar problem at our Case IH dealer. I went in to get a filter set for the 1456 and was dealing with a younger parts guy. He didn't know what a 1456 is and did not know that IH represents International Harvester. An older parts guy had to help him. Same issues have happened at JD dealer with 2 cylinder needs. Just my thoughts. Again thanks for all comments.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Market sets the price,BTW I sold a D19 single wheel front awhile back nothing like the 190 NF but still enough to cover the cost of the parts tractor it came off years ago.Anyone dealing in high dollar things like the 190 NF is going to be well aware of what is what.If not well education ain't free.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

You also have to add in the last 15 years or so a lot of old tractor parts have gone for scrap,probably 90% of the places I could have gone to pick up parts no longer exist or have scrapped out the older parts.So now its a different deal as far a quantity of used parts around.

 

[AU2001]

I Know what you are saying. Scrapping has reduced the supply.

I would also ad these thoughts. Our closest salvage yard is at least temporarily shut down because of lack of staffing...supply chain problems.

I have a 1944 IH ID-6. Factory HD front with 20 inch tires, factory duals. Pintle hitch, TDOT pained higway orange from the factory. Have 1947 I-6, standard front, factory duals, pintle hitch, kerosene, IH red. Pretty rare tractors. Problem....industrial and not good demand.

 

[rrlund]

No, I'm not even implying that you're desperate, I'm saying that crazy prices come from somewhere. If anybody's trying to sell one of those for more than a few hundred dollars, they must have gotten the idea somewhere that it was worth it. They're either fishing to see if you're desperate or they're just clueless about how many of those narrow fronts were made and how many models will interchange.

 

[AU2001]

Understand. No offense taken.

My general idea on high prices is this. Something has to be rare or hard to find. And at least two people have to want it bad enough to not be concerned about the price.

At this point this narrow front is not in that category. I have other people searching for me.

 

[AU2001]

Thanks. I got our shipping clerk to get an estimate for the front that is PA. This doesn't mean I'm getting I just wanted a Guage. I had to guess the weight of the front end and required pallet size. But I may have been wrong. Can you give me an estimate on weight and required pallet size just so I will know. I am not expecting complete accurancy.

 

[AU2001]

Do I need to try to contact this person on
the Farmall IHC forum? Thanks.

 

[rrlund]

Just a guess, but I think 150 pounds would catch it, maybe 2 feet by 3.

 

[AU2001]

Okay. Thanks. I guessed 300 lbs and a standard 40 x 48 pallet. I was quoted $175. Don't know.

I really appreciate your help and I do understand the points you have made.

I believe you said you are in Michigan. Don't know if you are a Wolverines fan or not but if you are good luck.

 

[J. Schwiebert]

Are you going to use the tractor with front mounted equipmen? The front ends as Lund mentioned from the smaller Olivers
will fit they are smaller in the bottom bearing area and there are at least 2 sets of hubs.

 

[AU2001]

Over the weekend I came up with some info. Hopefully I can resolve the debating that has come up over this. I didn't mean for that to happen.

Allis Chalmers made a zipper {informal) or interchangable (formal) front bolster. It was available on 180, 190, and 190XT tractors. This was not the standard bolster. The idea was to be able to go from narrow front, to wide front, to single front with the same bolster. It sounds as though the front ends were specially made to work with the bolster. There is a 2021 discussion about these front ends on the Unofficial Allis Chalmers website. Someone was buying a 190 parts tractor with the zipper bolster and the wide front. They wanted to know what to sell the front end for. They were thinking $600. Someone replied that the most they had seen a bolster go for is $2400. They stated that you have to find someone wanting it real bad to get that price. There were a couple other selling prices given around $1800. The interchangable narrow front pedestal is the hardest piece to find.This is probably what someone gave $10,000 for. If the bolster is worth $2400 max, that means they gave $7600 for the pedestal and power steering parts. I wouldn't go as far as to say they were a fool. A person can be wealthy enough that $10,000 is insignificant. But I might be more reserved about that than others. I also would not say this should be a standard for others to follow. I think Lund's point about apples and oranges is correct.

I got Worthington to do a part number comparison for me. I had it done on 18XX tractors since this is what I am dealing with. 1800A/B/C and 1850 all have the same part. It has been stated that this same front is on 15XX through 19XX except maybe spindle size. Yes we have had scrapping and supply chain problems. But there should still be an ample supply of these fronts.

Thanks for everyone's interest in helping with this. I do not have to convert this tractor back. It is is good shape like it is. It just has the -1 in the model number and was built narrow front. This is a preference since it is one of only a few Olivers original to our area since new. If anyone comes across anything please let me know. But I won't be able to travel longer distances. Short distance and shipping are my only two options. Merry Christmas to everyone!

 

[AU2001]

I do not see any front mounted attachments ever being on this tractor. We already have an 856 with a 2350 loader. The plan is to eventually restore it. Any work that it might do would be on the drawbar or three point. From the drawbar for the most part. It might be on a side deliver rake. It might also have a 4441 4 bottom plow behind it. That would be mostly at local plow day gatherings.