1900 Ford

[andyklein]

I really appreciate your expertise in this. Below is the paper work provided when I purchased the valve. I remember calling the dealer for help because as you can see the ports on the picture don't match the valve shipped (mine has 6 on top). That much said, would you be able to tell me from the actual pictures of the valve I have, how to install the power beyond sleeve, and connect the 2 hoses correctly? If I need to install a 3rd line back to the tractor, I don't know where to connect it? There is a plug on the front of the adaptor where the other 2 hoses connect now (you can see it in the pictures) is that for a return to the sump? I know this is hard when you don't actually have the unit to look at, I can take other pictures if necessary, and I do have the service manual for the unit.
I can ask the dealer if he knows about the adaptor that has the 2 hoses connected now to the tractor to see if he know what that plug is for. I don't have any information on that adaptor as it is aftermarket (I'm told) and was installed when the tractor was first purchased in about 1972.
Thank you!

 

[andyklein]

It was very common for the early compact tractors to have a loader plumbed in without a power beyond port. The block on the tractor that the two hoses connect to was added to the tractor to supply oil to the loader. It feeds oil to the loader first and the return line feeds oil to the three point hitch valve. This creates back pressure on the loader valve when you have a heavy load on the three point hitch. Problems such as you are having is why they went to the power beyond style loader valve. When the loader doesn't want to lower does the box blade bounce some as you try to work the loader? It could be that you have an internal leak in the three point hydraulics. Does everything work as it should if you remove the box blade?

The tractor has another problem that I did not even discuss because from what I see on the internet most people are having this (hiccup) problem with the rear 3 point. Yes, it sits there and bounces even when you are not operating the loader. I had the dealer look at it in 2016, "found bypassing within R/hyd top cover" They pulled it, took it to the shop rebuilt it. It helped but did not cure the problem. I'm guessing you are correct as the box scraper I have on it is a Gannon brand 66" wide, extremely heavy I assume (see picture)

 

[andyklein]

It was very common for the early compact tractors to have a loader plumbed in without a power beyond port. The block on the tractor that the two hoses connect to was added to the tractor to supply oil to the loader. It feeds oil to the loader first and the return line feeds oil to the three point hitch valve. This creates back pressure on the loader valve when you have a heavy load on the three point hitch. Problems such as you are having is why they went to the power beyond style loader valve. When the loader doesn't want to lower does the box blade bounce some as you try to work the loader? It could be that you have an internal leak in the three point hydraulics. Does everything work as it should if you remove the box blade?

I thought I posted this reply, but I don't see it. The box scraper does bounce even if you don't operate the loader. The dealer pulled the rear hyd. cover years ago, rebuilt it, but it did not cure the bouncing. When I look on forems about this 1900 tractor, it is a very common problem. I have a gannon brand 66" box scaprer on the rear, it's very heavy I'm sure. With the box on the ground the loader operates perfectly.
Thanks

 

[andyklein]

This plug is on the front of the adaptor block on the tractor where the 2 hoses connect now, is this for a return line?

 

[mhb@ufe]

I really appreciate your expertise in this. Below is the paper work provided when I purchased the valve. I remember calling the dealer for help because as you can see the ports on the picture don't match the valve shipped (mine has 6 on top). That much said, would you be able to tell me from the actual pictures of the valve I have, how to install the power beyond sleeve, and connect the 2 hoses correctly? If I need to install a 3rd line back to the tractor, I don't know where to connect it? There is a plug on the front of the adaptor where the other 2 hoses connect now (you can see it in the pictures) is that for a return to the sump? I know this is hard when you don't actually have the unit to look at, I can take other pictures if necessary, and I do have the service manual for the unit.
I can ask the dealer if he knows about the adaptor that has the 2 hoses connected now to the tractor to see if he know what that plug is for. I don't have any information on that adaptor as it is aftermarket (I'm told) and was installed when the tractor was first purchased in about 1972.
Thank you!

The plug on front of the block is not a port, that is where the circuit relief valve is. The block is not an aftermarket part it was part of the hydraulic kit that came with the loader. To convert your valve to power beyond you would need to install a power beyond plug in the valve where that plug is on the outside of the valve. The hose that is connected to the outside of the valve would be connected to the power beyond plug and then you would need to install a third hose where the hose that is now on the power beyond plug was. The other end of that hose would need go back to sump. Without having a tractor to look at I'm not sure I can tell you where you can connect that hose to go back to sump.

Mark

 

[mhb@ufe]

This plug is on the front of the adaptor block on the tractor where the 2 hoses connect now, is this for a return line?

I was typing when you posted that but if you look above you will see my awnser, that is the relief valve.

Mark

 

[andyklein]

I'm going to attach the original paperwork that came with the valve again so you don't have to go back thru what I have posted. Looks like the note #3 they have and the one in red could mean that I remove the hose that is currently the return line, install a power beyond and reattach the hose? Is it that easy?
Thanks

 

[andyklein]

Forgot the attachment

 

[andyklein]

Now that I'm rereading that brochure, I think I just need to purchase theB8476plug, install it in port 3 and I'm good to go as I already have a return line in port 2?

 

[mhb@ufe]

I'm going to attach the original paperwork that came with the valve again so you don't have to go back thru what I have posted. Looks like the note #3 they have and the one in red could mean that I remove the hose that is currently the return line, install a power beyond and reattach the hose? Is it that easy?
Thanks

The current return hose will connect to the power beyond plug and that supplies oil to the three point hitch valve but you still need a third hose to return to sump. When the loader valve is activated the oil from the cylinders need to be returned to sump. When the loader valve is in neutral the oil goes through the beyond to the three point hitch. Unfortunately the diagram they sent doesn't match the valve they sent.

Mark

 

[mhb@ufe]

I'm going to attach the original paperwork that came with the valve again so you don't have to go back thru what I have posted. Looks like the note #3 they have and the one in red could mean that I remove the hose that is currently the return line, install a power beyond and reattach the hose? Is it that easy?
Thanks

The current return hose will connect to the power beyond plug and that supplies oil to the three point hitch valve but you still need a third hose to return to sump. When the loader valve is activated the oil from the cylinders need to be returned to sump. When the loader valve is in neutral the oil goes through the beyond to the three point hitch. Unfortunately the diagram they sent doesn't match the valve they sent.

Mark

Now that I'm rereading that brochure, I think I just need to purchase theB8476plug, install it in port 3 and I'm good to go as I already have a return line in port 2?

Calling it a power beyond plug is con fusing, I should be referring to it as a power beyond sleeve.

Power Beyond Installation | Cross Mfg.

Sleeve Assembly Part Numbers: BA 1V0208 3/4" NPTF BA 1V0209 7/8-14 SAE BA 1V0249 1 1/6-12 SAE SA/AD 1V2566 7/8-14 SAE

crossmfg.com

Mark

 

[andyklein]

Okay, so if I understand you, I should purchase the power beyond sleeve, install it in port 3 on the diagram from Bare-Co control valve I have and it should fix the issue? Do you think I should purchase the one you provided or the one that is listed on their instruction sheet part # B8476?
Thank you

 

[mhb@ufe]

Okay, so if I understand you, I should purchase the power beyond sleeve, install it in port 3 on the diagram from Bare-Co control valve I have and it should fix the issue? Do you think I should purchase the one you provided or the one that is listed on their instruction sheet part # B8476?
Thank you

You need to purchase the one that fits the valve you have. I just found that one to show you that you need to have three hoses. The hose that you now have as a return hose will connect to the power beyond sleeve and the third hose will be the return to sump. I hope you understand that just moving the hose to the power beyond sleeve will not work if you don't add the return to sump hose.

Mark

 

[andyklein]

Okay, I understand now, I'll figure out with the Ford dealer where to connect the 3rd hose back to the sump. You have been a great help, might take me a bit to get this done, we're leaving for a trip to AZ to escape the cold, so i'm going to get his figured out and order what I need. I will defiantly give you an update as soon as I install the parts.
Thanks again!!

 

[mhb@ufe]

Okay, I understand now, I'll figure out with the Ford dealer where to connect the 3rd hose back to the sump. You have been a great help, might take me a bit to get this done, we're leaving for a trip to AZ to escape the cold, so i'm going to get his figured out and order what I need. I will defiantly give you an update as soon as I install the parts.
Thanks again!!

Your welcome, good luck and enjoy your vacation.

Mark

 

[andyklein]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I do appreciate everyone's help. To answer your question, the box blade will bounce when it is rasied from time to time, not all the time. I had the Ford tractor dealer work on this 6 years ago, they pulled the entire valve assembly that is under the seat, and rebuilt it. That helped for about 1 month.
So, I purchased a power beyond plug from Bare-Co the mfg. of the new valve and installed it in the port set up for this. Now the 3 point does not work at all. So I decided to rebuild the original valve I had, why I did not do this before is beyond me, I know how to rebuild Hyd. cylinders etc. 4 new O-rings and I reinstalled it and it functions better, but still, if I raise the 3 point with just the weight of the box blade is enough to affect how the bucket lowers. It is 90% better, but this tells me it has been like this since the tractor was built. I found out if I just raise the 3 point about 3" off the ground, the loader bucker works well. My guess is there is a leak somewhere in the hydraulic circuit allowing backpressure when the 3 point is raised?

 

[Harry in Ky]

If you don't have the loader valve plumbed with power beyond, the return oil from the loader cylinders has to go through the lift system. That defeats the purpose of power beyond. This is why you need a properly configured valve and the third hose in order for the loader and three point to both operate correctly. Somehow I thought you understood that, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[andyklein]

I understand that, unfortunately I assumed if I reinstalled the original valve that was supplied with the tractor when it was build in 1971 it would work properly. The original valve (pictures in my previous posts) only has 6 hoses, and no port for a 7th hose. I've spoken to the Ford tractor dealer that built it, he has no idea what to do. Bare-Co. the mfg of the new valve sold me the power beyond sleeve/plug, and as I stated , that made it worse. So, I guess I'll use it the way it is unless I can find someone who knows the correct valve to purchase and how to add another return line to the sump.
Thanks again

 

[mhb@ufe]

The third picture shows how to plump the power beyond.

http://www.bare-co.com/images/templateimages/header-bg.gif

 

[andyklein]

I tried opening the link, but all I see is a blue line?