1951 8n not starting HELP!

[jonchip]

Ok here we go, I purchased the biggest piece of junk of all 8n's. And when the brakes finally went out I decided to do some work on it. The only good thing about this tractor was that it fired right up and ran great! Until now..... I have done about a 80-90% restoration on it and I'm not sure why. lol.
The only thing I did not take apart was the motor internals. So for the parts I replaced that are related to this issue are the spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor, points, condenser, 12 volt coil and I rebuilt the carb. I also converted the electrical to a 12 volt system.
I still don't know if the timing is right but I feel it's close enough to get it started.
Ok now the problems..... The first day I tried to start it I was getting no spark and found the new ballast resistor had about 4 volts coming out going to the coil. So I just wired it without the resistor. As soon as I did that it wanted to start but didn't.
I used to be able to hit the choke once and it would fire right up. But now I have to choke the heck out of it just to get it to sputter. I'm at the point now where it will sputter then kick the started out..
I have spent days on this and I'm at a loss. I have a beautiful tractor now that doesn't run...... Lol I don't know at this time if I have a timing issue, or not getting enough spark, or not getting enough full to the cylinders?????????? Any suggestions out there that might send me in a good direction??? Thanks ahead

 

[Dollar Bill]

If you removed the distributor, there's a very good possibility it is out-of-time.

[b:1e71040439][size=18:1e71040439][color=blue:1e71040439]Mechanical Timing A Side Mount Distributor[/color:1e71040439][/size:1e71040439][/b:1e71040439]

Depending on how you mesh the distributor drive gears, #1 can be any one of the 4 holes in the distributor cap. When it left the factory, the rotor was pointing toward the right, front corner of the block to fire #1 cylinder.

1. Remove #1 spark plug.
2. With ignition off, place thumb or finger over the #1 spark plug hole and crank slowly until compression is felt.
3. Continue to crank the engine until the timing mark, 0° (top dead center) on the flywheel is found in the timing window on the right side of flywheel housing.

NOTE: Flywheel is calibrated from 0° to 20° in two places, 180° apart. You want the mark for TDC compression stroke. Use a screw driver on the flywheel starter ring gear to rotate to exactly align the 4° mark with the pointer.

4. Insert the distributor assembly with the gears fully meshed, the rotor should point to the right front cylinder head bolt. The important aspect is that rotor points to hole where #1 wire is plugged in. If not, remove and re-engage until the proper rotor position is obtained. This assumes that the No. 1 plug wire is in the distributor cap socket in line with the right front cylinder head bolt.

5. Rotate the distributor housing counter clockwise until the breaker points are closed.

6. Install the distributor cap; connect the primary, secondary and spark plug wires.

7. Hold the end of #1 spark plug wire approximately 1/8" from the cylinder head or manifold with the ignition "on", and then slowly rotate the distributor housing clockwise until a spark occurs - The spark should occur in less than 1/8 turn of the distributor housing.

8. Tighten the clamp screw securely

Remember firing order is 1-2-4-3 and the distributor rotates counterclockwise.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Did you remove the distributor? If not, don't worry about timing right now.

Why did you do a 12v conversion and not replace the coil?

Remove the resistor. Once the tractor is running, replace the 6v coil with a 12v coil from NAP, IC14SB.

You do not know if you have a spark or fuel problem, but you likely have fouled plugs and a weak battery.

Put your battery on a charger. (see tip # 60)

You need a strong battery to:

1. Close the solenoid

2. Spin the starter

3. Engage the bendix

4. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. If the battery is almost totally dead, all you will hear is the solenoid clicking.

The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.

Next, replace the plugs. If you flooded it, they're fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.

Next, check for spark and fuel.

You need to answer 2 questions before you do anything else:

With the bolt in the carb bowl removed and the gas on, will the fuel flow fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?

Next, get out your adjustable gap spark checker * , open the gap to 1/4", hook it up, turn the key on and crank the engine. Does the spark jump 1/4"? Post back with the answers.

And do not buy a new part for the tractor until you can answer this question: how do I know the part on the tractor is defective?



* Don't own an adjustable gap spark checker? Buy one! Not a test light! Until then, take an old plug, open the gap 1/4" ground it to the head & look for spark. It?s not the color of the spark that counts; it?s the distance it jumps. https://www.amazon.com/AMPRO-T71240-Energy-Ignition-Tester/dp/B00A8FO87S/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1513273147&sr=8-4-fkmr1&keywords=ampro+spark+checker
75 Tips

 

[L.Fure]

Do you have gas in the tank? That has fooled me in the past after checking everything else for a reason an engine not to start.

 

[HFJ]

bruce, he says he put a 12 volt coil on it already.

[b:353017fc97]"Do you have gas in the tank? That has fooled me in the past"[/b:353017fc97]

amen to this, and it sounds like a possibility when u say u have to choke the heck out of it to get anything to happen. the sediment bowl assembly has 2 pickups - normal and reserve. it is very common for the reserve pickup to be plugged. i find mine, with the new sediment bowl i put on it that plugged immediately, will run out of gas when it gets down to one inch of gas left in the tank. easy test - if you're low on gas, pour another 2 gallons in and then try it.

 

[HFJ]

ps: another test is to pull the plug from the bottom of the carb with the gas turned on at the sediment bowl. take a pint jar, pull that plug, and let the gas flow. don't just check for a few seconds, let it drain for 2 minutes. it should fill that pint jar.

 

[Dell (WA)]

jon.......the 5-nipple sidemount dizzy NEVER uses a "ballast resistor". Understand NEVER??? Recommend a real 12-volt round can coil. NAPA IC14SB. Points (0.025) and condenser are good fer 200-volts. You due know yer M/S carbie is GRAVITY flow, don't you? Me? I'd crack the gas cap to relieve enny VACUUM so gravity kenn work. Mud-daubbers like to fill the vent hole which is WHY I recommend cracking the cap. Summ bubba conversions use the original 6-volt coil and a 12-to-6 volt converting resistor. The recommended 12-volt replacement coil (NAPA IC14SB) even has hotter sparkies than a converted 6-volt coil. When you replaced the 5-nipple capple, didja use real COPPER-CORE sparkie wires 'stedda modern string sparkie wires? ALSO, learn how to adjust yer carbie. Set the down-pointing MAINJET to 2-turns and LEAVITT!!! Adjust the side-point IDLEMIX fer FASTEST idle, NOT SMOOTHEST idle. Understand the DIFFERENCE??? Shuld be about 1/8-1/4 turn. Remember, the idlemix is BASS-ACKWARDS, out fer lean, IN fer ENRICH. Iff'n ya install yer new sparkies (AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025) and still don't start, ya FLOODED yer sparkies and you need NEW DRY sparkies. Don't throw yer old FLOODED sparkies away, just clean'n'dry 'em, one-atta-time in HOT running engine. And save'um fer the NEXT time. (and there will be a NEXT time) .......HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 18:02:04 12/22/17)
bruce, he says he put a 12 volt coil on it already.

[b:805bcd8032]"Do you have gas in the tank? That has fooled me in the past"[/b:805bcd8032]

amen to this, and it sounds like a possibility when u say u have to choke the heck out of it to get anything to happen. the sediment bowl assembly has 2 pickups - normal and reserve. it is very common for the reserve pickup to be plugged. i find mine, with the new sediment bowl i put on it that plugged immediately, will run out of gas when it gets down to one inch of gas left in the tank. easy test - if you're low on gas, pour another 2 gallons in and then try it.

Reminds me of Carl in the movie Sling Blade opening the gas cap and saying, "It ain't got no gas in it." I imagine the owner of that tiller pulled his butt off trying to get it started before he decided to take it to the shop. In my youth I was hired at a gas/repair station as a small engine mechanic. On a Saturday morning a fella brought in a push mower that wouldn't start. While my boss was explaining to the owner of all the complicated things that needed to be fixed, I knelt down and checked the gas. It was full to the point overflowing. Then I asked the owner if he had left the mower outside during the night. The reason I asked was because we had gotten a lot of rain during the night. The carburetor bowl had a spring loaded drain valve on it, so I drained a little of what was in there on to a shop rag, then smelled it. You probably know where it goes from here. After draining the water out I gave the rope a pull and the engine started right up. My boss shut his mouth and walked into the shop.

 

[jonchip]

I'm leaning towards purchasing another set of plugs and a name brand coil today and trying that. I know the carb has plenty of gas in it for I have performed a flow test on it and it is recently rebuilt so it is clean inside. I will admit I didn't buy the most expensive parts and that might be some of my downfall right now. I have a cheap 12 volt round coil on it and cheap cap and rotor. Like I said it ran great before I started replacing parts and the electrical system has the most components I replaced.
So i know i have fuel in the carb and I have used my spark tester at 1/4" gap and it was good, The only thing I haven't tested are the spark plugs themselves. I always figured they were good since they were new. I'm going to get a new set of 437's today and try them. I know it's something simple, I just have to find what that simple thing is..... Lol

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" and a name brand coil today and trying that."

Why? What's wrong with the coil on the tractor? If the spark jumps 1/4" as you said, the coil is fine.

" I know it's something simple, "

Probably just as simple as cleaning the plugs that are in the engine and getting the battery fully charged.

Rather than buying parts you don't need, get a can of starting fluid.
75 Tips

 

[Bruce (VA)]

"he says he put a 12 volt coil on it already."

Yea, I see that now that I'm on the pc & not the postage-stamp size screen on my phone!

Tnx
75 Tips

 

[HFJ]

"Yea, I see that now that I'm on the pc & not the postage-stamp size screen on my phone!"

t-mobile's offering free netflix. um, thanks, but i like watching movies on something bigger than that postage stamp

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Texting for me is a PITA for the same reason. I can't half see it anyway, then auto-correct steps in .

Oh yea, I tried 'voice' texting. Damn thing didn't speak 'southern'!!!

I said F-I-R-E. It heard 'far'.

 

[HFJ]

lol. i bet u get tarred of that

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Day-um rat ahh do!

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

I worked with a toolmaker once who was from Kentucky. He was a hoot -always singing crazy songs. He said to me once that he had flares all around his house. What, I said, why flares? He said you Yankees call them flowers...

Tim Daley(MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Jon -you said "...it ran great until I started replacing parts on it...". The old adage, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' applies here. I as well a s some others here are wondering why you even did that -needed to spend some money did you? You DO NOT need to go buy another set of new plugs, unless you want to have an extra set around if you don't already. Remove current plugs, if wet, dry off with flame and gently clean carbon off, then recheck gap, .025". Please tell us what a "name brand" coil is? That ain't yer problem -you say you have spark. Listen to advice here -download a copy of BRUCE(VA)'s 75 Tips for shop reference. Get your battery checked and fully charged. Simply putting the battery on a charger does not mean it is good. How old is it? It must sustain a charge UNDER LOAD to be effective. Get a copy of WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR. I suspect your 12-volt conversion is the root cause. Your alternator; 1-wire or 3-wire? Do all the basic easy stuff. Don't just start replacing parts and guessing at the problem.

Tim Daley(MI)

 

[L.Fure]

This may or may not apply to your situation. I had a friend that was trying to get a neighbors truck running. He did as you and replaced everything but the paint color trying to get it to start. Until someone suggested putting a little oil in the spark plug holes. The engine had sat a long time unused, and the cylinders had dried out more from flooding the engine in efforts trying to start it. The oil gave it just enough compression to get the engine to start and run.

 

[jonchip]

Hey Tim, I've been saying the same thing about why did I do it. LOL. The reasoning is Who ever owned this before me did not take care of it at all.. And as I started digging into this tractor while restoring it I just kept finding more and stuff that was rigged and not the correct parts. So the way I am I replaced the parts with the correct part. And believe me there was a lot of rigged stuff. Unfortunately I was so deep into this this that I couldn't stop or go back now. Lol. The 12 volt conversion was because I was running a 12 volt battery and the 6 volt generator was no good. So i figured why not convert it.... And as far as the rest it all had to come off when I fixed all the leaks so I figured why not replace them with new parts while I'm at... At least I know where I stand after it was done..
Today I found the new coil primary was reading 2.8 ohms which what I read is higher than what it should be. So I happen to have a MSD coil laying around from one of my hot rods and i installed it. I cleaned the spark plugs and put in a known good battery. Even though the battery that was in was doing fine 4 months ago when I started this project. Unfortunately non of this made a difference. It is still doing the same thing. I notice a lot of gas in the throttle opening of the carb today so I thought it was flooding out the plugs, but when I pulled them they were dry. It wants to start but when it does it kicks the bendix out and I have to wait until the starter stops and try it again. It does this consistently. It's a good thing I'm bald because I would have pulled my hair out by now... Lol

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" Today I found the new coil primary was reading 2.8 ohms which what I read is higher than what it should be."

Well, for a 12 volt coil, that's low. It should be 3.25 ohms or better.

But, as I said previously, if you have a spark that jumps 1/4", why are you concerned about the coil?

Did you try the starting fluid I suggested yesterday?

" I notice a lot of gas in the throttle opening of the carb today so I thought it was flooding out the plugs, but when I pulled them they were dry."

Clean or change the plugs. Use starting fluid. The usual cause of gas in the carb throat is operator error.

While each N has its own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is a gravity fuel system on a low compression engine; it is easily flooded by too much choke.

Try this:

Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.

Or, just skip the choke completely and use starting fluid.
75 Tips

 

[jonchip]

Okay I'm about to give up here. I feel like I have tried everything possible but I'm getting nowhere. I have tried starting fluid and it seems like it wants to start but will not stay running and then three quarters of the time all it does is kicked out the Bendix. I thought because I put a new electrical system in it might have been that but I have double and triple checked everything on the electrical system and it is all good. I have worked on cars for many years but as I am learning tractors are definitely not even close to what cars are. LOL. I would like to ask one question if it would make a difference as you can see in the video I'm using a temporary gas tank because I have not put the body back on it. It holds about three-quarters of a gallon and I do know that it was flowing gas just fine. That shouldn't make a difference on an updraft system should it?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

As long as the gas tank is above the carb, you should have no problems.

Time to start over.

Does the spark jump 1/4" in open air?

Does the flow of gas out of the bottom of the carb fill a pint jar under 2 minutes?

Is your batter fully charged at 12.65 volts or more?

Are your points gapped at .025?

With the key on and the points open, measure the voltage across the open points. What is it?

Are your plugs clean and dry?

Turn the main jet adjustment screw all the way in. How many turns was it out? Then, back it out 1 & 1/2 turns.

Post back w/ answers. And leave the choke alone; just use starting fluid for now.
75 Tips

 

[jonchip]

Here's the video. I tested all 4 spark plug wires and they were jumping spark 1/4". I have 13.1 volts across the points. The gas if flowing out of the bottom of the bowl perfect. And I have had the idle Jet at 1 turn out to a half a turn out and the main jet at 1 turn all the way up to two turns and still no difference. I started off with a fresh set of 437 today and I just pulled them and they are wet. Not bad but a little bit. And I have double and triple checked the points and sparkies Gap.

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 03:09:32 12/25/17) Here's the video. I tested all 4 spark plug wires and they were jumping spark 1/4". I have 13.1 volts across the points. The gas if flowing out of the bottom of the bowl perfect. And I have had the idle Jet at 1 turn out to a half a turn out and the main jet at 1 turn all the way up to two turns and still no difference. I started off with a fresh set of 437 today and I just pulled them and they are wet. Not bad but a little bit. And I have double and triple checked the points and sparkies Gap.

Have you tried putting oil in the spark plug holes? You might have washed all the oil off the cylinders with all the flooding you put the engine through. That will reduce the compression enough for the engine not to start and run. Give it a try. BTW, autotransmission oil, or any other light oil should do the trick.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Video didn't post. Try again.

It's really hard to foul plugs w/ starting fluid. Regardless, dry them with a torch or clean them with brake cleaner. Before you put them back, put a few tablespoons full of oil in each cylinder to help with compression.

Spin the engine over for a few seconds, 3/4 throttle, no choke & spray the carb fluid directly in the carb throat.

Post back w/ questions or results pls.
75 Tips

 

[jonchip]

Funny I just did a compression check
about an hour ago. Number 3 and 4
cylinders were at 120 PSI. Number 2
cylinder was at 110 PSI. And number
one cylinder was at 120 PSI.

 

[jonchip]

For some reason I still can't post the video I took. I went back and tested the plugs at a 1/4" gap on my tester and here's my results. #4 wire was a consistent spark. #3 was good also, it might have skipped 1 spark. #2 was not consistent at all and #1 was even worse.
So question: knowing that #3&4 are good and #1&2 are not, would that lead me to there is a problem with the cap and rotor? The cap never fit right in the beginning. I had to slightly modify it to get it to fit.

Merry Christmas

 

[jonchip]

hopefully this video went through
1951 8n not starting Video

 

[Bruce (VA)]

(quoted from post at 19:34:33 12/24/17) For some reason I still can't post the video I took. I went back and tested the plugs at a 1/4" gap on my tester and here's my results. #4 wire was a consistent spark. #3 was good also, it might have skipped 1 spark. #2 was not consistent at all and #1 was even worse.
So question: knowing that #3&4 are good and #1&2 are not, would that lead me to there is a problem with the cap and rotor? The cap never fit right in the beginning. I had to slightly modify it to get it to fit.

Merry Christmas

Yep, time for a new cap and rotor. Or put the old ones back in it.

Merry Christmas!

 

[teddy52food]

Muffler plugged up?

 

[jonchip]

I'll give it a try and let you know. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you too

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 03:32:32 12/25/17) Funny I just did a compression check
about an hour ago. Number 3 and 4
cylinders were at 120 PSI. Number 2
cylinder was at 110 PSI. And number
one cylinder was at 120 PSI.

There's no reason to put oil in the cylinders with compression that high. After listening to your video I'm thinking it could be a plugged exhaust, like teddy52food suggested, or the timing needs to be advanced. How about the air cleaner, is there a chance that could be plugged up? Mice are very good at stuffing things up with their nest building this time of year.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Yep, w/ that compression, no need for oil.

Check the exhaust for blockage, clean or replace the plugs, replace the cap & rotor and use starting fluid direct into the carb. No choke.


It's not affecting the start problem, but it looks like you don't have a t-stat installed.
75 Tips

 

[jonchip]

Ok I am very embarrassed to say this but my starting problem is fixed. Just like I thought something simple. Lol. After going over your 75 tips for about the 5th time I came to the end on the firing order and I said that's gotta be an error on the 1-2-4-3.. after looking at my manual again it wasn't!! It was me presuming and not looking carefully. I had 3 and 4 reversed...duh... So with that said, it fired right up and ran great for about 10 minutes and then started sputtering. And when that happened I had no throttle control. I then noticed gas starting to come out of the bottom of the carburetor. So I removed the air cleaner tube and when I did that gas came pouring out of the carburetor. Almost like the float was stuck. So I put the old float needle back in it which was all metal instead of with a rubber tip and that cured that problem. I also clean the spark plugs and heated them just in case if they got flooded from too much gas. But unfortunately it is still running pretty rough and I had to leave for dinner. I was pretty embarrassed to even tell my wife what the main problem was let a long telling you guys what I did wrong. I remember when I was 16 years old and I had a barracuda that I did that with. Drove it for weeks running like crap until my next door neighbor came over and said oops you've got 2 wires crossed. I know I had a cap and rotor issue yesterday and I am wondering if it just got worse today and that's why it's running bad. I did not have time to check the spark but I will do that tomorrow and see where we are at. Once again thank you for everybody's help I do appreciate it. Thankfully one issue is resolved but another one is still there and we'll see where we go from here. Thank you very much Merry Christmas

 

[Dollar Bill]

Don't feel too bad - I did the same thing on my 50 8N. That's why I offered the troubleshooting tip in my first reply. Glad you got it figured out.

As with most troubleshooting it is a process of elimination. I like to start with no or low cost checks first. Have you verified timing? The steps in second post should get you on the money.

 

[jonchip]

Yes sir, the last thing I did today
was try to reset the timing back
because I had moved it a little to see
if it made a difference. But when I
went to check for spark on #1 when the
points open I was not getting any
spark. I had to quit for Xmas dinner.
Lol. I'm going to go back to it
tomorrow and check again.

 

[Dollar Bill]

But when I went to check for spark on #1 when the points open I was not getting any spark.

Key on? Don't laugh, it happens more than you think.

What is the ammeter showing while trying to start - constant discharge, no movement or does it oscillate?

 

[Dollar Bill]

[b:1340584ca6][color=blue:1340584ca6]No Spark Troubleshooting[/color:1340584ca6][/b:1340584ca6]

Put a test lamp in the line to the coil. Turn engine over lamp should blink.

If it never lights the points are not closing or there is no power.

If it never goes off, you have a short. Perhaps condenser, feed through insulator, points closed up and more rarely a breaker plate issue.

Light does stay on?

Remove distributor cap. Open points with something made of plastic. If lamp stays on, it's between the feed through insulator and the points.

 

[L.Fure]

Stuff like this happens to everyone, at least once. You should never assume anything while going over a check list. If airline pilots did that during their preflight check list ..............

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Where you trying to adjust the timing by ear? If so, you just learned something that many of us learned 40 years ago....it ain't gonna happen.

Remove the #1 spark plug. (removing all of them makes the job a bit easier) Ignition off, place your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole and crank slowly until compression is felt. Continue to crank the engine until you see the timing mark, 0* (top dead center) on the flywheel through the timing hole in the right side of the bell housing. Use chalk on the flywheel to exactly align the 4 degree mark with the pointer. Loosen the distributor hold down bolt. Rotate the distributor housing counter clockwise until the points are closed. Put the cap on & double check the plug wires, 1-2-4-3, CCW. Then, remove the primary wire from the side of the distributor (or at the coil, whichever is easier) Put one lead of your VOM (set on resistance) on the stud on the side of the distributor & the other on the block or other good ground. Slowly turn the distributor. The needle will move as the points close & then open. Find the exact spot just as the points open & then tighten down the distributor.

Now check your work (and the dynamic timing) w/ a light.

If it won't idle below 500 rpm (400 is better) don't bother w/ a light.

If it idles ok, make 3 marks w/ chalk or white paint on the flywheel:

4*
10*
17*

Start the engine.

At idle, the light should flash & the marker should line up exactly at 4* if you did the static timing correctly.

If not, loosen the distributor & turn it until the marks line up. It should take very little adjustment.

Once you've got that done, increase the engine speed to 1200 rpms. The light should flash & the marker should line up w/ the 10* mark. Then, increase the rpms to 2000 & look for the marker to align w/ the 17* mark.

Close counts on the advanced timing. A degree or 2 either way is ok. But, no movement or 5* or more off means you have an advance weight problem. You don't adjust the distributor to fix that.

 

[jonchip]

Okay, here's what I got done tonight.
I reset the timing again. Just to let
you know I know I have had the timing
correctly in the past. Unfortunately I
just had the firing order on the
distributor incorrect. So when I fired
it up tonight it ran great for about a
minute and a half to two minutes
again. Idle was good and also higher
RPMs were good. But then after a
minute or two of running good it
starts acting like its misfiring and
stumbling and then I lose all higher
RPMs and then it dies. It will start
back up just fine but run horribly.
When I try to shoot some starter fluid
in the carburetor it makes no
difference whatsoever. So from there I thought I
would check Spark. I hooked up my
tester and at normal Gap I am getting
a spark every once in awhile to no spark on all of the plug wires. So I checked my points
and they are opening and closing just
fine. I tested the primary and the
secondary on the coil and it is still
the same as when it is running good. I
did get a new cap and rotor and put
that on and it did not make a
difference. I am at a little bit of a
loss right now. If the points are
opening and closing why am I not
getting spark through the plug wires.
I even had another coil laying around
and it made no difference also. Any
suggestions on what to check next? And
by the way I did check the exhaust and
the muffler is not plugged

 

[jonchip]

I keep thinking it's a timing issue because I'm getting no spark to the wires. But why would it run good for a little while if the timing was so bad? I didn't even think that it might be a possibility that the distributor might be moving. It seems pretty tight. I didn't even think about checking that.

 

[Dollar Bill]

But then after a minute or two of running good it starts acting like its misfiring and stumbling and then I lose all higher RPMs and then it dies.

I keep thinking it's a timing issue because I'm getting no spark to the wires.

If you have verified the timing as instructed - Move on. The only way for timing to change after it runs perfectly for 2 minutes and quits is a stripped timing gear. But it would not start and run the next day.

Start it by jumpering around the resistor and the ignition switch. If that did not identify a problem, replace the condenser. If you still have it, put the old one back in it.

Classic faulty condenser symptoms; runs about a minute and quits then engine will start/run 20-30 mins later.

What were the results of the No Spark Troubleshooting steps I provided several posts ago?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

(quoted from post at 23:14:11 12/26/17) I keep thinking it's a timing issue because I'm getting no spark to the wires. But why would it run good for a little while if the timing was so bad? I didn't even think that it might be a possibility that the distributor might be moving. It seems pretty tight. I didn't even think about checking that.

You do not have a timing issue. And while the firing order issue w/ the plug wires would have caused you a problem it was not THE issue.

You have an intermittent spark problem.

You have eliminated the coil, wires, cap and rotor.

Two possibilities left: the insulator & copper strip in the distributor and the condenser. Check the insulator w/ your meter and replace the condenser.

 

[jonchip]

I check the insulator last night. I had no continuity between the dist body and the copper strip with the points open. Also had
12.87v at the points. They were arcing a lot though. The only thing I don't know how to check is the condenser. Can it be tested?
Either way I happen to have another new one in the shop. I will try it tonight. If this doesn't work look for the bright light in
the sky, it will be my tractor on fire!!! Lol
Thanks again

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Yea, you can test the condenser.........well, kinda, sorta........but I'd just replace it.

Check the link for the kinda/sorta condenser check.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig129.htm
75 Tips

 

[jonchip]

Be truthful I haven't even looked at the amp meter yet... I was more concerned about it running and oil pressure. I will look at it
tonight when I crank it and start it.

 

[jonchip]

You know whats funny. I even printed out your first post on timing trouble shooting. And until now, I noticed your firing order. I
was so set on 1234 that every time I saw 1243 it looked to me as 1234. Lol
I guess you can call that dyslexia.

 

[jonchip]

Hallelujah!!! There was no fire in the sky tonight.... stinking condenser was the problem. Thank you everyone for all the help. Now to find out if the rope packing in my Dearborn loader cylinders leak or not. Lol
Happy New Years

 

[Dollar Bill]

Glad you solved it - Congratulations!!