1963 706 hydraulics questions

[706man]

I have an issue with my westendorf loader on my 706. Important note:the tilt on my loader bucket worked perfectly before I did this work. I took the right rear control valve out as it leaked and took it to CaseIH to go thru(new piston,o-ring etc). Put the valve back in. But for over a year now my bucket still doesn't tilt back normally. It's way better in summer. Sometimes it tilts back about 3/4 of the way and the rest is really slow. Every once in a while it will tilt back normally with good speed. If I am lifting or working something and need down pressure on the bucket, it usually takes forever for it to start lifting the tractor if I have it flat on the ground. When I did this work I changed out the remotes for the bucket to these elbows(in picture AA). Hope that isn't the problem. I have tried for a year to let air get worked out of the system. I am going to try and buy two new couplers at the rear in case there is any issue with the ones on there. Only other possible solutions are to replace the hydraulic filter on right side below brakes/and or possibly over fill the hydraulic fluid to see if that helps. Any suggestions of if you see something wrong in my pics let me know. Just puzzled.

 

[flying belgian]

Are you absolutely certain you have the hoses hooked up correctly at the remotes.

 

[m16ty]

I don't think it's air in the system. If the problems started when you had the valves rebuilt I'd lean toward either a valve problem or you have it plumbed up wrong.

 

[caterpillar guy]

It looks like you have one circuit from the rear remotes going forward and then the other circuit coming from the side outlets for the cultivator lift going to something not sure just what since all I see are the 2 hose fittings from the side. Then what is the third hose in the third picture down from the top go to? Do you use a joy stick valve or the levers beside the seat to operate the loader. Plumbing off the sside could also be running the same circuit as the other circuit. Another words unless you have the left lever working the left circuit you could be cross feeding from the same circuit. Otherwise I would suspect a problem in your valve when the dealer reworked it. Those Are pretty easy to reseal with the o-rings and the poppet in them I probably need to go through mine again it has been about 10 years or so since I put new seals/o-rings in mine. There is an o-ring at each end of the spool and then the top and bottom of the valve a snapring pliers will take them out pretty easy then Getting the poppet out is the hardest part. To adjust the detent you just turn the screw through the small hole with the push cap at the back end of the valve in it stiffer and out is looser. I usually back them off completely. 3 Bolts takes them off as you know. The other way to supply your loader would be to use a power beyond plate with a joystick valve where it is handy to use it. Then your rear remotes would be available for use to run other equipment without interfering with the loader operation.

 

[706man]

Are you absolutely certain you have the hoses hooked up correctly at the remotes.

Well when I did the work, I put same color zip ties at each connection. But I am going to switch some around to see.

 

[706man]

It looks like you have one circuit from the rear remotes going forward and then the other circuit coming from the side outlets for the cultivator lift going to something not sure just what since all I see are the 2 hose fittings from the side. Then what is the third hose in the third picture down from the top go to? Do you use a joy stick valve or the levers beside the seat to operate the loader. Plumbing off the sside could also be running the same circuit as the other circuit. Another words unless you have the left lever working the left circuit you could be cross feeding from the same circuit. Otherwise I would suspect a problem in your valve when the dealer reworked it. Those Are pretty easy to reseal with the o-rings and the poppet in them I probably need to go through mine again it has been about 10 years or so since I put new seals/o-rings in mine. There is an o-ring at each end of the spool and then the top and bottom of the valve a snapring pliers will take them out pretty easy then Getting the poppet out is the hardest part. To adjust the detent you just turn the screw through the small hole with the push cap at the back end of the valve in it stiffer and out is looser. I usually back them off completely. 3 Bolts takes them off as you know. The other way to supply your loader would be to use a power beyond plate with a joystick valve where it is handy to use it. Then your rear remotes would be available for use to run other equipment without interfering with the loader operation.

The Pic I have labeled CC, is misleading. The hoses come from the area in front of the brake pedals. Then come to the back remote. Then both run all the way back to the loader bucket connections. I will try swapping hoses to see if something is connected wrong.

 

[caterpillar guy]

If you run directly from the side in front of the brake pedals you don't need to go back to the rear with them just go to the cylinder you want to work.IT is tied in at the top of the valve if you look at pictures 3and 4 you can see the stacked banjo fittings, One goes back to the rear and the other goes to that coupler set up by the brake pedals. Then the other set of hoses need to go to the lift cylinder from either the other side or at the remotes.

 

[706man]

Totally agree. I had that thought when I started this post. I thought why are the hoses going all the way to the back when they don't have to. But I am getting a snowblower before next winter and will be installing some sort of joystick.
I did reverse the bucket hose connections at the back today. Thought maybe it worked a little better. I think I need a trained set of eyes to look at it.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Tight photos that don't show the whole picture aren't helpful. Need to be able to see where the hoses are going.

For sure something strange is going on, because for some reason you're using the cultivator outlets up under the fuel tank AND the rear outlets at the same time. One or the other, not both. It's almost like you have a second path for the oil to flow somewhere besides the loader, and that is likely your problem.

It is NOT your filter. That would affect ALL functions. Overfilling with hydraulic fluid is for one specific problem, which again would affect ALL functions, which you do not have, and as such is a waste of 5 gallons of fluid.

 

[caterpillar guy]

If you decide to go to a joy stick valve for the loader this winter I would procure a power beyond plate for it then you could have both remotes for anything else. Looking at one of the pictures I was not certain if you had a slab plate on the side of the valves or not. If you do then it would be easy to just add the plate if not then you would need the same valve as the inside one so the oil can flow through it like the first valve does now. IF you are saying the hoses coming from the side port by the brakes is the same as the ones with the aluminum bracket that is your problem you are using the same circuit to run both functions if this is not so then it should work fine. the stacked banjo fittings look to go to the set of coupler that are screwed into the casting on the right. so now where do the lines for the left valve go . If they come to the back how are they doing this. I see 2 lines stacked with a set of lines appearing to also go to the front. IF you have ports on both sides of the tractor at the brake pedal and the clutch you could use both of them and skip the rear couplers all together. IF not then you need to see where the left valve lines are going. My 806 has lines stacked like yours only they are on the left side of the tractor by the clutch pedal. I use them on my snow plow for one circuit then the rear set for the other circuit Have lift and right left angle with the other . post a picture of the top view of the valves with the seat off and a side view of the tractor. I would like to come help but the distance is a bit far from MI.

 

[706man]

Tight photos that don't show the whole picture aren't helpful. Need to be able to see where the hoses are going.

For sure something strange is going on, because for some reason you're using the cultivator outlets up under the fuel tank AND the rear outlets at the same time. One or the other, not both. It's almost like you have a second path for the oil to flow somewhere besides the loader, and that is likely your problem.

It is NOT your filter. That would affect ALL functions. Overfilling with hydraulic fluid is for one specific problem, which again would affect ALL functions, which you do not have, and as such is a waste of 5 gallons of fluid.

I will post more pics today then. Loader was on tractor when I purchased. I just assumed the two fixed remote couplers at back are for loader up/down and the remote by brakes are for bucket dump/back. Everything's fine til ya take it apart, right? I should never took that control valve out. But like I said, worked perfect before hydraulically challenged guy took things apart.

 

[706man]

If you decide to go to a joy stick valve for the loader this winter I would procure a power beyond plate for it then you could have both remotes for anything else. Looking at one of the pictures I was not certain if you had a slab plate on the side of the valves or not. If you do then it would be easy to just add the plate if not then you would need the same valve as the inside one so the oil can flow through it like the first valve does now. IF you are saying the hoses coming from the side port by the brakes is the same as the ones with the aluminum bracket that is your problem you are using the same circuit to run both functions if this is not so then it should work fine. the stacked banjo fittings look to go to the set of coupler that are screwed into the casting on the right. so now where do the lines for the left valve go . If they come to the back how are they doing this. I see 2 lines stacked with a set of lines appearing to also go to the front. IF you have ports on both sides of the tractor at the brake pedal and the clutch you could use both of them and skip the rear couplers all together. IF not then you need to see where the left valve lines are going. My 806 has lines stacked like yours only they are on the left side of the tractor by the clutch pedal. I use them on my snow plow for one circuit then the rear set for the other circuit Have lift and right left angle with the other . post a picture of the top view of the valves with the seat off and a side view of the tractor. I would like to come help but the distance is a bit far from MI.

Yes, the lines from the brake area go to the aluminum bracket at back. Then come back up to loader on spark plug side. Let me post some more pics that may shed more lite on what everything is doing. Thank you!

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I will post more pics today then. Loader was on tractor when I purchased. I just assumed the two fixed remote couplers at back are for loader up/down and the remote by brakes are for bucket dump/back. Everything's fine til ya take it apart, right? I should never took that control valve out. But like I said, worked perfect before hydraulically challenged guy took things apart.

Where do the hoses go from the couplers that are just on the right edge of picture CC? There are clearly hoses connected there, but the picture cuts them off.

Those right side couplers, and the outlets on the right side under the fuel tank in picture AA, are on the same valve.

 

[706man]

Here are some more pics. The two lines with the yellow and white zipties are for the bucket. You should be able to follow them from back to front on the bucket cylinders. The first pic is the start(brake side). They run to the back in the 2nd pic(don't ask me why). Then they run to the 3rd pic the two couplers left side of pic also with yellow and white ties. Then they connect to piping that runs to the bucket cylinders in 4th pic. Yellows run to top end of cylinders and white to the bottom end of cylinders. I ran it again today. Tilted the bucket all the way down a couple times and it seemed to tilt back with good speed to where the bucket is level then the last couple inches were slower. I think its plumbed correct but I await and other opinions. The detent seems to work good too. The two couplers in front of clutch are unused. This could be simplified am waiting til I know its hooked correctly right now. Thanks Guys!

 

[flying belgian]

Gosh, I didn't look back at your other posts but is the problem exclusively with the bucket? If so, now from your description I'm starting to wonder if the piston came unscrewed from the shaft in one of the bucket cylinders.

 

[706man]

Gosh, I didn't look back at your other posts but is the problem exclusively with the bucket? If so, now from your description I'm starting to wonder if the piston came unscrewed from the shaft in one of the bucket cylinders.

Yep, problem is just the bucket.

 

[caterpillar guy]

I would suspect one of those couplers with so many sets of them or even one is crossed would do it if there was air in there to work on. I would also eliminate one set of hoses with those on the right side coming from those ports by the brake those can go right to the loader couplers and save the headaches and couplers to be a problem. I would just have those lines by the brake with a coupler there so the hoses went with the loader when it is off. then you would have only the other set to deal with this would simplify the hose mess and less likely to cross one. IF you want to make sure the hoses stay clean when not in use use a male and female on the same side so you can connect the hoes into each other when not in use off the tractor this will keep you from crossing them since they would have to go in the respective order. Then tie those together with a larger zip tie as a pair now the circuits will also be kept separate. You could also paint the one set different than the others. Lots of ways to do it. I like the opposite couplers because I can then connect them together so they stay clean then you can keep the ones on the tractor clean with a short piece of junk hoes that has blown out or even just a sock over them. Dad ties a piece of an old pants leg a foot long on them so it hangs down over them and works pretty good too. So you are saying you have double usable ports on the sides with only one set of remotes out the back? That is strange and as I looked at the earlier pictures I was wondering if that was the case since I didn't see anyway to run a second circuit in the back.