1967 2000 Series Power Steering

[YerocSemaj]

I've searched around a bit and I can't find what I'm hoping to.

About a year ago I bought a '67 Ford 2000 series, 3-cylinder gasser, just to pull a small garden tiller around. I've been slowly fixing/replacing things here and there since, but I'm stumped with a power steering issue.

I have the "above" reservoir, and it has three lines going into/out of it. The rubber lines that attached the hard lines to the reservoir were brittle and weather checked, so I figured I swap them out. I drained the reservoir (by unhooking the lowermost hose) and when it drained I noticed it was pretty grimy looking. I replaced the old hoses and filled the reservoir with generic hydraulic fluid (which I've used for years in 100 different pieces of equipment). The filter was... horrible looking. I also noticed the spring was on the stud, below/inside the filter, instead of on top of the filter to press it down and seal. Because the filter needs replacing, I just left it out and thought I'd cycle it a few times without the filter just to make sure the lines had fluid in them regardless.

Immediately I noticed difficulty in steering which never existed before, and when letting go of the wheel the steering would bounce back and forth almost like it was telling me "NO!" I assumed it was air in the system, but everything I did was above the pump so I'm not sure how air could have gotten in to begin with. I started messing around, trying this and that, bleeding from here and there, wasting precious hydro in the process, and now the whole system, the pump, the two cylinders, and my aching head groan every time I touch the wheel. I'm sure I screwed something up. It's not my first tractor, yet I just can't figure out where I went wrong.

Is there a specific fluid for the steering that I should be using? Is there another way to "bottom bleed" the lines (which shouldn't be necessary with a vented upper reservoir). Does the filter have to be in place for the system to operate properly? Does the spring actually go under (inside) the filter and not on top of the filter between it and the lid? None of these issues existed until I drained the reservoir and refilled it, and that's literally all I did. (I did other things afterward, but the issue was immediate following the drain/refill and hasn't improved no matter what)

Any advice would be more than welcome.

 

[Sean in PA]

Turning the steering wheel full stop left to right a few times with the engine running should bleed any air out of the system. It sounds more like you might have dislodged some crud that has found its way into the control valve in the steering column.

 

[sweetskillsrk]

What exact fluid did you put in? Like Sean suggested, turn the wheel back and forth from stop to stop just like on a car. I always jack the front up of whatever vehicle I'm working on to do that; makes it easier on you and the power steering system while you work all the air out.

 

[YerocSemaj]

Sorry, I was out of town for a couple of days.

I've ordered a new filter and I'm going to replace the fluid with Traveler brand AT/UTF/Hydro fluid. Does anyone know offhand the lowest point that I can drain the old oil from? Then I'll lift the front and cycle the steering back and forth and see if it works. If not I'll look into "cleaning" the system out. Thank you very much. I'll get back with you.

 

[YerocSemaj]

Ok. I drained as much of the old oil as I could from the bottom hose fitting near the left cylinder. I replaced the filter and filled it with Traveller brand (TSC) Trans/UTF/Hydro fluid (10w-30 I believe). I lifted it and cycled the steering back and forth maybe 40 times. It got slightly easier but still groans when doing so. It seems to steer slightly easier to the right than the left, but the groans are consistent either direction. I took it for a ride through one of our meadows for 20 minutes and it was still difficult (not manual-steering difficult, just not buttery smooth like it was before I started messing with the old fluid) and it continued to groan like I do getting out of bed. It's never acted like this before- is a line partially plugged? That's going to be a lot of work to go through all of them.

TL;DR- New filter and fluid was a slight improvement, but it's still sad.

Thanks!

 

[Sean in PA]

Any kind of groaning or whining noise in a hydraulic system means that there is a restriction to the flow. I an thinking that the old lines that were "brittle and weather checked" might have dislodged one or more pieces from the inside lining and that has made its way into some part of the system. Since it makes the noise when turning in both directions, my bet is that it is at one end or the other of the pressure line going from the pump to the control valve in the steering column. Disconnect each end of that line and see if there is any kind of debris in there.

 

[YerocSemaj]

Any kind of groaning or whining noise in a hydraulic system means that there is a restriction to the flow. I an thinking that the old lines that were "brittle and weather checked" might have dislodged one or more pieces from the inside lining and that has made its way into some part of the system. Since it makes the noise when turning in both directions, my bet is that it is at one end or the other of the pressure line going from the pump to the control valve in the steering column. Disconnect each end of that line and see if there is any kind of debris in there.

So, take the skins off the column, open the lines to the steering box, and... blow air through them to hopefully dislodge any chunks? Or pull the whole unit and clean it out? The hard lines are pretty thin so I can see one getting plugged. The new fluid is already "dirty" even with a new filter and fluid (I'm guessing I only drained about half). Is the fluid I used acceptable? Or should I use ATF (a thinner fluid that some profess to love)?

Thanks again.

 

[Sean in PA]

There should be one line going from the pump body to the steering column. That is the one that I suspect has something clogging it. I would try just that one first, and if that's not it, move on to the others, but since it does it when steering in both directions, I think the clog is before the flow gets to the steering column. You can try blowing air through the lines, but most of the time, something in there that's clogging things up is right inside the fitting when you disconnect one end of a line and you can usually get it out with a pick or an awl. Just be careful to not put a nick in the sealing surface of the fitting.

 

[YerocSemaj]

There should be one line going from the pump body to the steering column. That is the one that I suspect has something clogging it. I would try just that one first, and if that's not it, move on to the others, but since it does it when steering in both directions, I think the clog is before the flow gets to the steering column. You can try blowing air through the lines, but most of the time, something in there that's clogging things up is right inside the fitting when you disconnect one end of a line and you can usually get it out with a pick or an awl. Just be careful to not put a nick in the sealing surface of the fitting.

Sounds like a more reasonable place to start. I did find some "black, rubbery chunks" attached to the side of the new filter, so I'm guessing the hoses were as bad on the inside as they were on the outside, which supports your thinking. It also looks like someone's been into the steering assembly already judging by the orange RTV squidging out everywhere. I'll work on the main line in the next couple days and get back with you. Just to confirm though- the fluid I'm using is "ok"?

 

[Sean in PA]

Yes, The Travelers Premium UTF is fine. It meets the Ford/New Holland M2C134D specification.

 

[YerocSemaj]

I pulled the four hardlines that go from the steering box to the cylinders, as well as the hose going to the box from the reservoir, and blew air through them. Reinstalled and refilled the fluid. The steering pump is clearly pumping as the fluid in the reservoir definitely gets moving. I cycled the steering to a fro a few dozen times and, again, it seemed slightly easier, but it was definitely still groaning and moaning. I also noticed that, while watching the fluid churn around in the reservoir, that it definitely looked a bit... aerated (a bit frothy even). I have to believe that this fluid has anti-frothing agents, but maybe this is normal?

Also, I remembered that when I originally changed the fluid, my neighbor suggested I fill the pump first "to prime it" (I know it doesn't work that way, but he's much more seasoned than I and has like 20 tractors so I entertained him). He unscrewed a "bolt" at the top/rear of the pump (numbers 17-20 in this diagram https://avspare.com/catalog/newholland/85073/22054/258998/) and now I'm wondering if #17 may have fallen out in the process. I'm not sure if that's even possible- I know the spring came out with the plug- but it's just listed as a "hydraulic valve" and I'm not sure how to even verify its presence in the pump or if that could even be responsible for the groaning/poor performance.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Destroked 450]

What is it you’re trying to do
Once you started the engine did you continue to add fluid while you worked the air out
Did you change the filter in the reservoir, a ruptured filter will cause aeration

 

[YerocSemaj]

What is it you’re trying to do
Once you started the engine did you continue to add fluid while you worked the air out
Did you change the filter in the reservoir, a ruptured filter will cause aeration

A month or so ago I decided to change the fluid in the power steering reservoir. It was brown/gray in color and had lots of "floaties." At that time I discovered the filter also had the spring inserted below it instead of on top (a PO thing)- which meant the fluid wasn't actually being forced through the filter. So I drained the fluid and tossed the filter. I added new fluid while waiting for the filter to arrive, but ran it for maybe 10 minutes anyway without the filter just to cycle clean fluid through the system. It was difficult turning left and right (which it didn't do before) and the power steering pump was groaning loudly (which it didn't do before either). Then it was suggested that maybe the hydro fluid I was using wasn't suitable, so I drained it and used a commonly available, known to be "ok" fluid, and it only helped a little bit. So I figured there was air in the system and tried bleeding from here and there. Then it was suggested that I may have displace debris pluggng a line- so I disconnect all six lines and blasted air through them- then refilled the reservoir again, and it's still groaning. It has a brand new filter, shiny new fluid (for the third time), and is still groaning which it never did with the nasty brown fluid. So I'm tying to elimnate one thing at a time- and now I'm down to- "maybe a missing valve" that may have fallen out when my neighbor wanted to pour fluid directly into the pump to "prime it" so it didn't run dry, which it wouldn't have anyway... I just want my power steering to be buttery smooth like it used to with crap fluid and a bypassed filter.

TLDR; At the end of the day, I want the power steering to work like it did when it had crappy, nasty, unfiltered fluid, and before I changed it with nice, new, clean and properly filtered fluid. "I just want my power steering to be buttery smooth like it used to with crap fluid and a bypassed filter."

 

[Destroked 450]

Generally the same universe tractor hydraulic fluid used in the rear axle and transmission is what one uses in the power steering
Some use whatever oil they use in their engine in case the pump seal leaks fluid into the engine
If that relief valve part is missing the pump won’t make enough pressure to operate the power steering at all
It’s possible the dirty thick fluid was compensating for a worn pump

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Generally the same universe tractor hydraulic fluid used in the rear axle and transmission is what one uses in the power steering
Some use whatever oil they use in their engine in case the pump seal leaks fluid into the engine
If that relief valve part is missing the pump won’t make enough pressure to operate the power steering at all
It’s possible the dirty thick fluid was compensating for a worn pump

The power steering should use the fluid with the 241 spec, not the 134. The 241 is for the SOS transmissions.

 

[Keith Williams]

The power steering should use the fluid with the 241 spec, not the 134. The 241 is for the SOS transmissions.

Mike, the 134 spec is what I use and what is recommended.
Keith

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Mike, the 134 spec is what I use and what is recommended.
Keith

Not to argue, just what I read in the OP manual.

 

[Jim.ME]

Most of the Universal Transmission Hydraulic Fluids now cover multiple Ford/New Holland specs (such as M2C41B, M2C48C, 53A, 86B, 134D, C, B, A). As always check the specs on the labels, in many cases the new oils/fluids replace the ones that were available and shown as recommended when the manuals for the tractors were printed.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

If #17 had fallen out you wouldn’t have any steering pressure… that’s the relief valve. You say the steering got harder which would make sense if this part got lost, but there would not be enough pressure to make the steering wheel act as it does… the pump would merely circulate the oil back to the reservoir.

The type of oil you are using is not causing this problem.

Try jacking up the front of the tractor and turn the wheel lock to lock with the engine off and the cylinders disconnected if there is any foreign material in the cylinders , this might blow it out. And whatever is stuck in the valve might dislodge if it is not held in there with pump pressure.