1970 Ford 5000 electrical problem

[zilla24]

Hello all. Longtime reader here and can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. I'm Having some issues with what was my dads gas 1970 Ford 5000. The tractor sat for some time and I've recently got it up and running, replaced the exhaust and rebuilt the carb. I put a new battery in and have run it around mowing in our field. After some use the charging light came on, I tested the battery and found it not to be charging at 1500 rpm. I figured it was a bad voltage regulator, went ahead and ordered one of those and replaced it. After 25 minutes of used the light came back on. At this point I looked everything over closely and I realized the new battery had the posts switched from what the old battery did, I had the terminals swapped. So I corrected the terminals, positive to the solenoid and negative to ground by the starter. Started the tractor up and no charge with a bright red charging light on now. Figuring I fried the solenoid I ordered another one. Before I cook this one does someone have a wiring diagram I could review to make sure things are right? When switching the battery cables I want to make sure I didn't switch something I shouldn't have. Im also curious where the wires go to the solenoid.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Jim.ME]

Here is a link to the service manual for the 2000 - 7000 series tractors that you can download and save. It has wiring diagrams for the different tractors in it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwSJ083sGeDtUzRLNEE5SjU1X0k/view

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 17:32:28 07/27/20)
Here is a link to the service manual for the 2000 - 7000 series tractors that you can download and save. It has wiring diagrams for the different tractors in it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwSJ083sGeDtUzRLNEE5SjU1X0k/view

hat do you have to do to look at it?? Link took me from one place to another, ask many permissions up to and if I would accept a colo-rectal exam & make results open to internet public!

 

[zilla24]

Jim thank you so much, that is exactly what I needed.

I went ahead and started with the basics on P.229 and tested the generator by disconnecting the leads and putting a jumper in place. When testing that connection to ground I have zero volts, seems my generator might be bad?

 

[crankyfranky]

(quoted from post at 13:44:30 07/27/20) Hello all. Longtime reader here and can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. I'm Having some issues with what was my dads gas 1970 Ford 5000. The tractor sat for some time and I've recently got it up and running, replaced the exhaust and rebuilt the carb. I put a new battery in and have run it around mowing in our field. After some use the charging light came on, I tested the battery and found it not to be charging at 1500 rpm. I figured it was a bad voltage regulator, went ahead and ordered one of those and replaced it. After 25 minutes of used the light came back on. At this point I looked everything over closely and I realized the new battery had the posts switched from what the old battery did, I had the terminals swapped. So I corrected the terminals, positive to the solenoid and negative to ground by the starter. Started the tractor up and no charge with a bright red charging light on now. Figuring I fried the solenoid I ordered another one. Before I cook this one does someone have a wiring diagram I could review to make sure things are right? When switching the battery cables I want to make sure I didn't switch something I shouldn't have. Im also curious where the wires go to the solenoid.

Any help is much appreciated.

probably need to reflash the generator. UNLESS it has an alternator.

 

[zilla24]

It definitely has a generator.

 

[crankyfranky]

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1445347

check out this thread. it has some good info that i just went through on a reverse polarity type B generator set up.

is your tractor normally positive ground or Negative ground? anyway you need to identify if your system is type A or type B. also compare your old regulator to your new one paying special attn to the terminal location and order to make sure you replaced it with the correct one. once you are positive of your type you can use the info in that thread to flash your polarity.

 

[ErnieD]

Carefully check the battery, it maybe reverse charged.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 18:23:04 07/27/20)

(quoted from post at 17:32:28 07/27/20)
Here is a link to the service manual for the 2000 - 7000 series tractors that you can download and save. It has wiring diagrams for the different tractors in it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwSJ083sGeDtUzRLNEE5SjU1X0k/view

hat do you have to do to look at it?? Link took me from one place to another, ask many permissions up to and if I would accept a colo-rectal exam & make results open to internet public!

When I click on the link it goes to Google drive where it says it is too large to preview and asks if I want to download it. I click download. Next page say too large to scan for viruses, and asks if I want to download anyway. I click download anyway and it opens. I don't know why it took you somewhere else, if you don't have a Google account that might be why. Beyond that I don't know, it looks like zilla24 got to it.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:32:06 07/27/20)

(quoted from post at 18:23:04 07/27/20)

(quoted from post at 17:32:28 07/27/20)
Here is a link to the service manual for the 2000 - 7000 series tractors that you can download and save. It has wiring diagrams for the different tractors in it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwSJ083sGeDtUzRLNEE5SjU1X0k/view

hat do you have to do to look at it?? Link took me from one place to another, ask many permissions up to and if I would accept a colo-rectal exam & make results open to internet public!

When I click on the link it goes to Google drive where it says it is too large to preview and asks if I want to download it. I click download. Next page say too large to scan for viruses, and asks if I want to download anyway. I click download anyway and it opens. I don't know why it took you somewhere else, if you don't have a Google account that might be why. Beyond that I don't know, it looks like zilla24 got to it.

hank you

 

[zilla24]

Franky, how did you determine whether or not your generator was an "A" type or "B" type?

Since my results from generator testing showed zero volts I removed the gen and plan to take it to the local battery shop and see if its working.

I am curious however once the results from the gen are in how to flash the gen and regulator?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 06:55:40 07/29/20)
Franky, how did you determine whether or not your generator was an "A" type or "B" type?

Since my results from generator testing showed zero volts I removed the gen and plan to take it to the local battery shop and see if its working.

I am curious however once the results from the gen are in how to flash the gen and regulator?

he manual that Jim.ME gave you the link to says that it is Type "B".

 

[crankyfranky]

(quoted from post at 03:55:40 07/29/20)
Franky, how did you determine whether or not your generator was an "A" type or "B" type?

Since my results from generator testing showed zero volts I removed the gen and plan to take it to the local battery shop and see if its working.

I am curious however once the results from the gen are in how to flash the gen and regulator?

you can test the generator without taking it off of the tractor by removing the belt and motoring it.

 

[zilla24]

I stopped by the battery/alternator shop today, they tested the generator and said it was shot. They ordered me in another one, should have it tomorrow.

 

[zilla24]

Installed the new generator today, now have some voltage output from the generator. Checked charging at battery while the tractor is running and still nothing. Battery remains the same voltage as when the tractor is off.

Had another voltage regulator (I initially thought this was my charging issue) so I went ahead and installed it. The tractor is now charging as it should. Here is the catch... It seems like with the new voltage regulator something is shorting. The new generator is hot to the touch while sitting, also the low charge light on the dash is on even when the tractor and key are off.

I tried polarizing both the old and new voltage regulators to no success. Im about at my wits end with this thing, is it possible the old voltage regulator is bad and the new one is bad too? Just seems weird to me that it will charge while running up to 13v but is shorting while off?

 

[Sean in PA]

also the low charge light on the dash is on even when the tractor and key are off.

It is not a "low charge" light. It is a charging circuit warning light. It should be on when the key is in the run position with the engine not running but should go out when the engine is running or when the key is off. If it is on when the key is in the off position then either the key switch is bad or something is not wired properly.

 

[crankyfranky]

(quoted from post at 17:45:00 07/30/20)
Installed the new generator today, now have some voltage output from the generator. Checked charging at battery while the tractor is running and still nothing. Battery remains the same voltage as when the tractor is off.

Had another voltage regulator (I initially thought this was my charging issue) so I went ahead and installed it. The tractor is now charging as it should. Here is the catch... It seems like with the new voltage regulator something is shorting. The new generator is hot to the touch while sitting, also the low charge light on the dash is on even when the tractor and key are off.

I tried polarizing both the old and new voltage regulators to no success. Im about at my wits end with this thing, is it possible the old voltage regulator is bad and the new one is bad too? Just seems weird to me that it will charge while running up to 13v but is shorting while off?

if the generator is getting hot i would say you have a short in the generator or have hot to ground.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 22:32:40 07/30/20)

(quoted from post at 17:45:00 07/30/20)
Installed the new generator today, now have some voltage output from the generator. Checked charging at battery while the tractor is running and still nothing. Battery remains the same voltage as when the tractor is off.

Had another voltage regulator (I initially thought this was my charging issue) so I went ahead and installed it. The tractor is now charging as it should. Here is the catch... It seems like with the new voltage regulator something is shorting. The new generator is hot to the touch while sitting, also the low charge light on the dash is on even when the tractor and key are off.

I tried polarizing both the old and new voltage regulators to no success. Im about at my wits end with this thing, is it possible the old voltage regulator is bad and the new one is bad too? Just seems weird to me that it will charge while running up to 13v but is shorting while off?

if the generator is getting hot i would say you have a short in the generator or have hot to ground.

say that Vr's cut out relay is stuck closed.

 

[zilla24]

I'm leaning towards a fault in the VR as well. The charge light is not on with the original VR installed and the generator is not hot, its just not charging as your throttle up.

The charge light (with the key off) is on and the generator is only hot with the "new" VR which was purchased from Amazon. I'm not highly confident its a suitable replacement. I'm thinking now I might try and source an OEM VR from the dealer.

 

[crankyfranky]

(quoted from post at 03:40:54 07/31/20)
I'm leaning towards a fault in the VR as well. The charge light is not on with the original VR installed and the generator is not hot, its just not charging as your throttle up.

The charge light (with the key off) is on and the generator is only hot with the "new" VR which was purchased from Amazon. I'm not highly confident its a suitable replacement. I'm thinking now I might try and source an OEM VR from the dealer.

have you compared the two VR's side by side? are the terminals in exactly the same order? have you taken the cover off of the VR's to see if the contact points are stuck together or carboned up and need cleaned? haow did you polarize your generator?

 

[zilla24]

I did compare the two side by side, the connections are the same. I have not looked at the contact points on the old one as its riveted together, I did look at the new one and can't see where any contacts are stuck, but I'm not 100% what to be looking for here either.

I tried polarizing the generator two ways and neither seemed to help. First was to touch the field connection on the generator to the positive on the battery, result was a small spark. Second method was to touch the field on the VR to the positive on the battery, result was a strange solenoid/grinding type noise and spark. Neither methods on both old and new VR seemed to have an effect on my charging issue.

 

[JMOR]

" Second method was to touch the field on the VR to the positive on the battery,...." That is almost a guarantee of destroying the VR contacts! It causes a current , perhaps as much as 50 times the normal field current, to try to flow through the field contacts. Not good!

 

[zilla24]

Dually noted, I should however clarify slightly on that... I Touched the field on the VR to battery connection on VR. Its actually the method specified in the service manual.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:15:50 07/31/20)
Dually noted, I should however clarify slightly on that... I Touched the field on the VR to battery connection on VR. Its actually the method specified in the service manual.

doubt that. Copy & paste that paragraph, please.

 

[zilla24]

 

[JMOR]

" I Touched the field on the VR to battery connection on VR." See the IMPORTANT warning at bottom of your last post. So, you did exactly what it warned you NOT to do!

 

[zilla24]

The field wire on the VR was disconnected and touched to the battery lead on the VR, no jumper was used.

Its very well possible I've misinterpreted this task and shorted something, how else would I polarize then?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:47:10 07/31/20)
The field wire on the VR was disconnected and touched to the battery lead on the VR, no jumper was used. do?

Its very well possible I've misinterpreted this task and shorted something, how else would I polarize then?

You need to say what you mean. "The field wire on the VR was disconnected and touched to the battery lead on the VR, no jumper was used. " Is VERY DIFFERENT than, " I Touched the field on the VR to battery connection on VR." So, which did you do?

 

[zilla24]

I disconnected the field wire on the VR and touched it to the battery lead on the VR, no jumper.

My apologies, I'll need to be more specific when asking for help.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 12:43:03 07/31/20)
I disconnected the field wire on the VR and touched it to the battery lead on the VR, no jumper.

My apologies, I'll need to be more specific when asking for help.

K. That was the correct thing to do. However, if no wire was disconnected when you " First was to touch the field connection on the generator to the positive on the battery, result was a small spark"...then an excessively high current went back to the field contacts in the vr via the gen field to vr field wire connection.

 

[crankyfranky]

i just recently got my 2000 type b system to charging. note first that i did not replace anything because although it had sat unused in the barn for many years with a dead battery all of the components appeared to have been replaced just before it was parked. the battery had been connected wrong by the fellow i purchased it from from a positive ground correctly he connected it negative ground. i tried unsuccessfully to polarize the gen after i reconnected everything correctly by using the proper method. i then made a jumper and jumped the battery to armature for a few seconds and now it works.

 

[zilla24]

Well I fixed it. Picked up a new voltage regulator from the dealer, aftermarket but US made. Polarized it by disconnecting the field wire at the VR and brushing it across the battery terminal on the VR, got a small blue spark. Started up the tractor and charging like it should. Thanks all for your contributions.

It seems the first replacement VR was either bad upon receipt or somehow compromised during installation. FWIW the dealer VR was only about $8 more than the Amazon version.

 

[crankyfranky]

(quoted from post at 13:14:12 07/31/20)
Well I fixed it. Picked up a new voltage regulator from the dealer, aftermarket but US made. Polarized it by disconnecting the field wire at the VR and brushing it across the battery terminal on the VR, got a small blue spark. Started up the tractor and charging like it should. Thanks all for your contributions.

It seems the first replacement VR was either bad upon receipt or somehow compromised during installation. FWIW the dealer VR was only about $8 more than the Amazon version.

thanks for letting us know. congratulations

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 16:14:12 07/31/20)
Well I fixed it. Picked up a new voltage regulator from the dealer, aftermarket but US made. Polarized it by disconnecting the field wire at the VR and brushing it across the battery terminal on the VR, got a small blue spark. Started up the tractor and charging like it should. Thanks all for your contributions.

It seems the first replacement VR was either bad upon receipt or somehow compromised during installation. FWIW the dealer VR was only about $8 more than the Amazon version.

You probably didn't need to do the polarizing bit again. It's the generator that gets polarized, not the VR. It's just easier to do it with the VR end of the wires.