2-105 hard starting

[Cash4Toys]

Not mine, so second hand info.
New transfer pump and batteries. Won't
start when weather was warm or now cold.
Hand primer pump pushes fuel out the
bleeder on the pump, still no start.
No fuel in crankcase oil.
I am going to test the batteries and do
starter draw test for him, but any other
thoughts on where to look?
I dont have any Perkins manuals, as I have
only Waukesha.
Anyone know what the starting rpm is
supposed to be?

 

[Roger Link]

Are you getting any white smoke out of the exhaust when its cranking over?

 

[Cash4Toys]

He claims it does not. Thats what makes me think its not spinning fast enough, or something in the pump.

 

[Dieseltech]

When engine has run 2-3 hours, will it start after a five minute shut down? If not, the injection pump MAY be severely worn at rotor ports and barrel outlets and need the hydraulic head replaced.

 

[Cash4Toys]

If, and when he gets it to run, after a few hours of use, it will start if only shutdown for a short period of time, oil check. etc.
Over 20-30 minutes, no easy start. DT I was hoping you would comment about the pump. Is it possible that it may not be spinning fast enough to start? I know my 1955 is that way,batteries need to in excellant condition.

 

[Dieseltech]

Cranking speed is critical for any diesel to start well, faster the better. Weak batteries, tired starters, cables with green ends all kill diesel cranking speed needed for engines to start well.

 

[NYOlivers]

Definitely cranking speed is a major component for starting. How is the fuel supply to the pump? I have been seeing to much of gummed up fuel lines and filters from cheap un treated diesel fuel. Makes like a tar substance in the fuel system.

 

[rrlund]

Will it start if you tow it? If it's like mine, it's awful cold blooded. Does it have a thermo start heater? I was frustrated that if I clipped a jumper wire from the alternator to the thermo start it'd start right up despite having a new button and getting power when I had the wife push it. I finally figured out that I was holding the button down for too long. I was holding it to the count of 40 like it was an electric heater. It wasn't taking that long to clip a wire on, walk around, get back in and try it, so I went to the count of 15 and it starts right up. The thermo start on my 1365 takes over 20 seconds to ignite, so that was throwing me on the 2-105 too.

My 1850 Perkins started hard with the original engine, but that 8700 White combine engine in it is one of the easiest starting diesels I've ever had. That one has the electric manifold heater, but it has to be pretty darned cold to need it.

 

[Cash4Toys]

Like I said earlier, second hand information.
Heater works, pulls the batteries down. Which case not sure he bought the best batteries for the tractor, sounds to me like there may not be enough amps in them. He replaced the fuel pump, but I doubt he needed to. Someone sent him down a path of a restriction in the fuel line, so he had the tank off and whatever. Engine pulls pretty good and ran fine at higher rpm, so, to me thats where a restriction would have shown up. I am still leaning to either the pump is bad, or its still starter, cables or batteries.
If it is plugged in, both block and pan heaters, and then he has a charger on it, it will start. I believe it starts because it spins faster with all fluids warm, and the extra boost. This what he did when it was 60+ degrees to get it running. I don't know how it happens, but seems like he always listens to ill advice, maybe cause its less expensive, short term.

 

[Dieseltech]

The EARLY 105 used a no advance, fixed phase injection pump, the LATE 105 used a speed advance pump so timing is retarded for easier cold starting. The early tractors didn't start as well as the later models did. The MF 1135 early/late engines had different pumps too far as advance option was used.

 

[rrlund]

OK, not starting warm, my 4040 Deere started that and it was the fuel lift pump.

 

[Steve in IL]

Regarding batteries, we replaced the original dual 6 volt batteries with a single 12 volt group 31. Simpler. Cheaper. And turned over the engine fine, even in colder weather (mower tractor, never really used in winter).

 

[B A Star]

   As a former Division Service Manager, All of the suggestions are good.   The final solution may be in the cylinder head.   Valve depth below the head gasket surface specification is: 029 to .039.   The closer to .029 you can get it the better for starting and performance.
   Yes, we experienced valve depth out of specifications in new engines.

 

[MikeO-WI]

I replaced the two 6 volt batteries on mine with the one 12 volt unit. Not sure what group number but it is similar to the batteries found in the Ford 8600/9600. About the same footprint as the two 6 volt ones but without the extra external connection between the two batteries. I have also installed very good battery disconnect switches on each of my tractors. I don't use them during the winter but do hook up battery maintainers that keep them fully charged until spring. When it is colder, I find that if I go full throttle on the initial try, it usually fires right up. However if at idle and it doesn't catch on the first try, I have to get the can of either out.