2-70's red hot gas cap!

The 2-70 with all of your help is becoming a working tractor. Unusual thing, couple weeks ago went to start it and it seemed locked up. Pulled the dipstick and it was clear full of gas. So I pulled all the sparkplugs and turned it over and it was hydrolocked with gas above the pistons! So, new sparkplugs and oil and filter change and it fired right up and I moved it10 feet like I originally was going to do. But, I have started shutting off the gas at the sediment bowl. I was using it Friday to stage some wagons as I had a semi bringing in 53 big square bales. Coming up the driveway it started its old coughing and sputtering so I shut it off and let it cool down and changed the inline fuel filter. This leads us to yesterday, while unloading the semi it coughed and sputtered once, I shut it off, then restsrted it and continued unloading the semi so the driver could get on his way. I then loaded three wagons and we went to the barn and I stacked hay. About halfway done, it was lunch time and noticed it might need hydraulic fluid. After lunch added hydraulic fluid, 5 gallons of gas and finished up by 4 pm. Getting off of the tractor at the end of the day I heard a hisss. Found it coming out of the top of the gas cap. Touched the gas cap and it was HOT! And I mean HOT to the touch much like a radiator cap. Thinking I would release the pressure I used my shop rag and took off the cap. Loud whoosh and then gas started to splash up like a wave! Got the cap back on and sat down and waited to see if a fire was getting ready to start. After a while, I shut off the gas which by the way is in a most unaccessable spot on this tractor with side shield and loader. Thought I would see what you all have to say about this. Yes, am buying a new gas cap by the way.
 
The 2-70 with all of your help is becoming a working tractor. Unusual thing, couple weeks ago went to start it and it seemed locked up. Pulled the dipstick and it was clear full of gas. So I pulled all the sparkplugs and turned it over and it was hydrolocked with gas above the pistons! So, new sparkplugs and oil and filter change and it fired right up and I moved it10 feet like I originally was going to do. But, I have started shutting off the gas at the sediment bowl. I was using it Friday to stage some wagons as I had a semi bringing in 53 big square bales. Coming up the driveway it started its old coughing and sputtering so I shut it off and let it cool down and changed the inline fuel filter. This leads us to yesterday, while unloading the semi it coughed and sputtered once, I shut it off, then restsrted it and continued unloading the semi so the driver could get on his way. I then loaded three wagons and we went to the barn and I stacked hay. About halfway done, it was lunch time and noticed it might need hydraulic fluid. After lunch added hydraulic fluid, 5 gallons of gas and finished up by 4 pm. Getting off of the tractor at the end of the day I heard a hisss. Found it coming out of the top of the gas cap. Touched the gas cap and it was HOT! And I mean HOT to the touch much like a radiator cap. Thinking I would release the pressure I used my shop rag and took off the cap. Loud whoosh and then gas started to splash up like a wave! Got the cap back on and sat down and waited to see if a fire was getting ready to start. After a while, I shut off the gas which by the way is in a most unaccessable spot on this tractor with side shield and loader. Thought I would see what you all have to say about this. Yes, am buying a new gas cap by the way.
You are VERY lucky, NEVER remove the gas cap when the tractor/engine are HOT!
 
Wore Out, never in my life have I touched a gas cap that was to hot to handle and whistling like a steam whistle. I debated taking it off, but then thought, "what a fire risk". Obviously learned that the gas was doing something and wanted out of the tank so put it back. Completely foreign territory for me for sure. Since I purchased this tractor it has been "quirky". It just doesn't work without something happening. If I didn't like the tractor so much it would have gone down the road last fall. Appreciate your concern.

Craig, I have a 1650 in the shed so I swapped gas caps today. And your suggestion went through my mind also. I couldn't see how a gravity flow system could hydrolock an engine, but if it had that much pressure as it did yesterday, it had to go somewhere. Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions.
 
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The gas cap needs to be vented for sure. It may be just a case of cleaning the vent port on the old one? You may not need a new one. But even more importantly: Why was the crankcase full of gas? I have a hard time seeing how a non-venting gas cap could be causing that much fuel to get in the case. If it's building pressure, that could overpower the float. But the only way I can see it creating substantial pressure is when it gets hot. Which might be the case if it was sitting in the sun and was quite cool the last time the tank was opened. But (and I could be wrong) I have a hard time believing it would create enough pressure to force enough gas into the case to fill it above cylinder level. I would think the pressure in the tank would have equalized loooong before it dumped that much gas into the case. It sounds more like two separate problems: i) Gas is free-flowing into the case somehow. ii) The tank is not venting properly.

I confess: I've worked around a few 1650's & 1655's (gas & diesel), but only one 2-70, and it was a diesel. Did the 2-70 gas have a lift pump like the 1655's gassers and 2-70 diesel did? If so, that needs to be checked. The diaphragms in those lift pumps go bad and allow gas to pour into the crankcase. But from what I can tell in my manuals, the stock 2-70 gassers were just gravity fed straight into the carburetor. If that's the case it sounds like just a sticking float/needle. Whatever the case, the fuel in the crankcase problem should be addressed. Has someone added a fuel pump to your gasser? I doubt it, but I recall hearing of some IH hillside mods where IH dealers and owners added a mechanical fuel pump to tractors and combines that were typically gravity fed - to make sure the carb was always fed fuel, even on a slope where the tank level might be below the carb.

Are you sure it was pressure, and not a vacuum? A 2-70 gasser would be a thirsty unit. Even if some pressure could be building due to the tank getting hot from running and/or being in the sun, I would think that it would be using gas at a rate that would prevent it building any pressure. Most (99%) of symptoms due to a plugged tank vent result in it creating a vacuum, not building pressure. Which may also be caused if too much fuel was free-flowing flowing (from, say, stuck needle valve or bad pump diaphragm, which would explain the gas in the case). The fact that gas sloshed out doesn't necessarily mean it was building pressure instead of creating a vacuum: When fuel tanks build vacuum, the vapour pressure goes down. When you relieve it, wacky things can occur: Vaporized fuel will do dense rapidly and it will have a large inrush of air to equalize the pressure, and this causes fuel to slosh everywhere.

This is definitely speculation and guesswork on my part. But I'd be surprised that you'd build pressure in the tank of a running 2-70 gasser due to an un-vented cap. I'd think it more probably you created a vacuum, as that's the most common problem with a plugged cap vent (and because a 70 HP gasser will use fuel at a pretty substantial rate). Although I've never been around a gasser 2-70, I own a gasser Allis 180 - exactly the same engine displacement. When I first got it and it was acting up, it was due to exactly that: Plugged cap vent creating a vacuum in the tank.

I'd get a vented cap on there. But before running any more, I'd also be trying to figure out why gas was getting into the case. Even if my thoughts on vacuum vs. pressure are wrong, I just can't see how pressure alone would fill the case that full of gas. Sounds to me like either a stuck needle valve or bad pump diaphragm (if it has a pump, which I don't think it does). And a stuck needle valve (and/or bad pump diaphragm) definitely need to be fixed, as they won't do any favours for your engine.
 
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when i was young we used a 70 oliver to cut grain sorghum stalks my father was using it on a hot day we picked him up for lunch when he stopped the tractor we heard something boiling took off gas cap the gas in the tank was boiling the 70 olivers had a strange exhaust setup and it was blowing on the tank never say that the good lord didn't love my daddy
 
when i was young we used a 70 oliver to cut grain sorghum stalks my father was using it on a hot day we picked him up for lunch when he stopped the tractor we heard something boiling took off gas cap the gas in the tank was boiling the 70 olivers had a strange exhaust setup and it was blowing on the tank never say that the good lord didn't love my daddy
Trackrat's post reminded me of a thread on here a year or two ago where someone was having problems with 2-70 carb icing. I looked it up, and found it was the OP of this thread who also had carb icing problems.

To the OP: This might add another variable to the system. In you old thread about carb icing, you mentioned you built a tin 'heat houser' for your 2-70 to allow the exhaust manifold to heat the carb and prevent icing. Is this heat houser still on it? If hot gases from around the manifold are being directed around the carb and/or tank, then you certainly could have fuel boiling, causing the tank to build pressure at a faster rate than it would be relieving it by pulling fuel out.

It still sounds like something (needle/float or pump) is allowing gas to free-flow into the case. Which needs to be fixed asap: Turning the fuel off when not running isn't a proper fix: Fuel will still be able to flow into the case while it's running, because the engine doesn't use fuel at the rate it can come in at: It will just enter the case at a slower rate when running because it will also be burning fuel at the same time. And the gas cap venting still needs to be checked/fixed. But that heat-houser should also be investigated: If you haven't already, I would think that in summer temperatures you'll definitely need to take it off to prevent it boiling gas in the carb lines or tank.

A carb kit (including proper setting of the float, checking the needle sealing, and making sure the float isn't rubbing on the sides of the bowl), a new (or fixed) fuel cap, and removing the heat houser for summer use are all quick/easy/cheap things you can do in a few minutes that I suspect might solve your problems.
 
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The gas cap needs to be vented for sure. It may be just a case of cleaning the vent port on the old one? You may not need a new one. But even more importantly: Why was the crankcase full of gas?

I confess: I've worked around a few 1650's & 1655's (gas & diesel), but only one 2-70, and it was a diesel. Did the 2-70 gas have a lift pump like the 1655's gassers and 2-70 diesel did? If so, that needs to be checked.

Are you sure it was pressure, and not a vacuum? A 2-70 gasser would be a thirsty unit. Even if some pressure could be building due to the tank getting hot from running and/or being in the sun, I would think that it would be using gas at a rate that would prevent it building any pressure. Most (99%) of symptoms due to a plugged tank vent result in it creating a vacuum, not building pressure. Which may also be caused if too much fuel was free-flowing flowing (from, say, stuck needle valve or bad pump diaphragm, which would explain the gas in the case). The fact that gas sloshed out doesn't necessarily mean it was building pressure instead of creating a vacuum: When fuel tanks build vacuum, the vapour pressure goes down. When you relieve it, wacky things can occur: Vaporized fuel will do dense rapidly and it will have a large inrush of air to equalize the pressure, and this causes fuel to slosh everywhere.

This is definitely speculation and guesswork on my part. But I'd be surprised that you'd build pressure in the tank of a running 2-70 gasser due to an un-vented cap. I'd think it more probably you created a vacuum, as that's the most common problem with a plugged cap vent (and because a 70 HP gasser will use fuel at a pretty substantial rate). Although I've never been around a gasser 2-70, I own a gasser Allis 180 - exactly the same engine displacement. When I first got it and it was acting up, it was due to exactly that: Plugged cap vent creating a vacuum in the tank.

I'd get a vented cap on there. But before running any more, I'd also be trying to figure out why gas was getting into the case. Even if my thoughts on vacuum vs. pressure are wrong, I just can't see how pressure alone would fill the case that full of gas. Sounds to me like either a stuck needle valve or bad pump diaphragm (if it has a pump, which I don't think it does). And a stuck needle valve (and/or bad pump diaphragm) definitely need to be fixed, as they won't do any favours for your engine.

I do greatly appreciate you taking the time and energy to help me with this problem. I have switched gas caps with my 1650 gasser but haven't needed it yet to know if it has created a change.

No lift pump or fuel pump, gravity fed system.

Now, that is a great question, vacuum or pressure. Hmmmmm, I cannot truthfully answer that. I assumed it was pressure as it was whistling like an old steam kettle on the stove, so I just went with what my brain associated that sound with, pressure. When I touched the gas cap and found it extremely hot, I used a shop rag to handle it so it wouldn't burn me so the rag prevented me from feeling pressure or vacuum. When I removed the cap, I remember hearing a sound and then fuel coming up an out and I slapped the cap back on. So no, I do not know which it was.

The crankcase being overfull due to gas, that has only happened once and it has been a puzzler. The work the tractor did that day was unloading feed from a feed/auger cart (Noodler type). For the one barn wife runs the pto and fills blue barrels that I place and change to get a ton of feed in the barn for the steers. So it was about an hour but not running hard. (this tractor hasn't run hard like plowing or even mowing heavy grass yet). So with this new situation, I question if either vacuum or pressure, it caused it to push past the float and filled the cylinders which then the gas ran around the rings and through the grooves and filled the crankcase. This is the only way I can figure the engine became hydrolocked. Thus the reason I shut off the gas manually.
 
very well explained I agree with your thoughts. I have a 1650 and 1655 both gassers i put electric shut offs on both which allow fuel flow only when key is on. Bought off of amazon

I am going to take your suggestion and do that. As a kid we always had to shut off the fuel on the M, H and VAC Case. I have gotten lazy with my JD 2510, 1650 and this 2-70 not needed that until now. Appreciate the information, looked it up on amazon and will be ordering one soon.
 
Trackrat's post reminded me of a thread on here a year or two ago where someone was having problems with 2-70 carb icing. I looked it up, and found it was the OP of this thread who also had carb icing problems.

To the OP: This might add another variable to the system. In you old thread about carb icing, you mentioned you built a tin 'heat houser' for your 2-70 to allow the exhaust manifold to heat the carb and prevent icing. Is this heat houser still on it? If hot gases from around the manifold are being directed around the carb and/or tank, then you certainly could have fuel boiling, causing the tank to build pressure at a faster rate than it would be relieving it by pulling fuel out.

It still sounds like something (needle/float or pump) is allowing gas to free-flow into the case. Which needs to be fixed asap: Turning the fuel off when not running isn't a proper fix: Fuel will still be able to flow into the case while it's running, because the engine doesn't use fuel at the rate it can come in at: It will just enter the case at a slower rate when running because it will also be burning fuel at the same time. And the gas cap venting still needs to be checked/fixed. But that heat-houser should also be investigated: If you haven't already, I would think that in summer temperatures you'll definitely need to take it off to prevent it boiling gas in the carb lines or tank.

A carb kit (including proper setting of the float, checking the needle sealing, and making sure the float isn't rubbing on the sides of the bowl), a new (or fixed) fuel cap, and removing the heat houser for summer use are all quick/easy/cheap things you can do in a few minutes that I suspect might solve your problems.

Yep, that is me and this is the same tractor. Of course I took the homemade heat houser off. But I do agree this is another variable to this tractor's quirks. At this time, turning the fuel off is a complete fix. It is just unhandy as heck.
Boiling, now that comes to mind the sound I was hearing and why I originally grabbed the cap and it was hot as heck. So would boiling create pressure or vacuum?

I hadn't had gas in the crankcase. I check oil before each use. Now with that said, the day we unloaded feed I thought the oil level was a smidge higher than it had been, but knew it was getting an oil change that week so went ahead and unloaded feed. The next time I went to use it was when I found the oil pan full of gas and the tractor hydrolocked. Since that time, to save oil changes and cost of new plugs, I have shut off the fuel each time I park it. So I am thinking it all associates back to this last trend of the gas cap whistling and possibly the gas in the tank boiling.

As always, this has been an outstanding resource of ideas, tips, tricks and profound information, so posted this new problem. Thank you for really trying to help diagnose this problem.
 
Boiling creates pressure. Think of a pot of water on the stove. Heat without vent will build pressure in the tank. The pressure will push the fuel past the natural resistance of the float and needle, which isn't much, fill the carb, and up into the intake and head. You should also be noticing fuel in your intake tube from the air cleaner to the carb, up to the height of the intake manifold on the engine. It should be leaking there too.

If you want confirmation, when you drain the oil and have a few days, make sure the fuel level is fairly high above the engine in the tank, leave the oil plug out, fuel cap off, fuel on, and see if the tractor puts fuel into a clean container through the engine. If it doesn't, problem solved. If it continues, you also need a carb rebuild because your float isn't shutting off. You could also disconnect the intake tube from the carburetor and see if it's pouring out the carb rather than letting the engine fill.

But it's almost certain your tank is hot, not venting and pressurizing the fuel through the carb into the engine.
 
Yep, that is me and this is the same tractor. Of course I took the homemade heat houser off. But I do agree this is another variable to this tractor's quirks. At this time, turning the fuel off is a complete fix. It is just unhandy as heck.
Boiling, now that comes to mind the sound I was hearing and why I originally grabbed the cap and it was hot as heck. So would boiling create pressure or vacuum?

I hadn't had gas in the crankcase. I check oil before each use. Now with that said, the day we unloaded feed I thought the oil level was a smidge higher than it had been, but knew it was getting an oil change that week so went ahead and unloaded feed. The next time I went to use it was when I found the oil pan full of gas and the tractor hydrolocked. Since that time, to save oil changes and cost of new plugs, I have shut off the fuel each time I park it. So I am thinking it all associates back to this last trend of the gas cap whistling and possibly the gas in the tank boiling.

As always, this has been an outstanding resource of ideas, tips, tricks and profound information, so posted this new problem. Thank you for really trying to help diagnose this problem.
Boiling would build pressure for sure. I'd be a little surprised that it would boil if your heat houser is off, however: You hear about fuel boiling on older tractors - especially back in the day when smaller HP tractors would be worked exceptionally hard for long hours. I remember it happening when my grandfather used his gas Fordson Major on the threshing machine: The underslung exhaust routed close to the tank, the fact that the tractor was sitting stationary in the sun while running the thresher for hours at a time on extremely hot days, and the fact that it was one holy heck of a load for a 35 HP gasser meant that it would get pretty toasty. Sometimes when you'd finish in the evening and it was a little darker out you could see the exhaust manifold glowing a dull red.

In cases like that I can definitely see enough latent heat being present to cause the fuel tank to boil. But I have hard time believing a (comparatively) newer White 2-70 doing (presumably) fairly light loader work would have that issue. But that is admittedly guess work on my part. Getting the cap venting correctly and monitoring the oil level closely as Scooter suggests is likely the best first step.
 
The gas cap needs to be vented for sure. It may be just a case of cleaning the vent port on the old one? You may not need a new one. But even more importantly: Why was the crankcase full of gas? I have a hard time seeing how a non-venting gas cap could be causing that much fuel to get in the case. If it's building pressure, that could overpower the float. But the only way I can see it creating substantial pressure is when it gets hot. Which might be the case if it was sitting in the sun and was quite cool the last time the tank was opened. But (and I could be wrong) I have a hard time believing it would create enough pressure to force enough gas into the case to fill it above cylinder level. I would think the pressure in the tank would have equalized loooong before it dumped that much gas into the case. It sounds more like two separate problems: i) Gas is free-flowing into the case somehow. ii) The tank is not venting properly.

I confess: I've worked around a few 1650's & 1655's (gas & diesel), but only one 2-70, and it was a diesel. Did the 2-70 gas have a lift pump like the 1655's gassers and 2-70 diesel did? If so, that needs to be checked. The diaphragms in those lift pumps go bad and allow gas to pour into the crankcase. But from what I can tell in my manuals, the stock 2-70 gassers were just gravity fed straight into the carburetor. If that's the case it sounds like just a sticking float/needle. Whatever the case, the fuel in the crankcase problem should be addressed. Has someone added a fuel pump to your gasser? I doubt it, but I recall hearing of some IH hillside mods where IH dealers and owners added a mechanical fuel pump to tractors and combines that were typically gravity fed - to make sure the carb was always fed fuel, even on a slope where the tank level might be below the carb.

Are you sure it was pressure, and not a vacuum? A 2-70 gasser would be a thirsty unit. Even if some pressure could be building due to the tank getting hot from running and/or being in the sun, I would think that it would be using gas at a rate that would prevent it building any pressure. Most (99%) of symptoms due to a plugged tank vent result in it creating a vacuum, not building pressure. Which may also be caused if too much fuel was free-flowing flowing (from, say, stuck needle valve or bad pump diaphragm, which would explain the gas in the case). The fact that gas sloshed out doesn't necessarily mean it was building pressure instead of creating a vacuum: When fuel tanks build vacuum, the vapour pressure goes down. When you relieve it, wacky things can occur: Vaporized fuel will do dense rapidly and it will have a large inrush of air to equalize the pressure, and this causes fuel to slosh everywhere.

This is definitely speculation and guesswork on my part. But I'd be surprised that you'd build pressure in the tank of a running 2-70 gasser due to an un-vented cap. I'd think it more probably you created a vacuum, as that's the most common problem with a plugged cap vent (and because a 70 HP gasser will use fuel at a pretty substantial rate). Although I've never been around a gasser 2-70, I own a gasser Allis 180 - exactly the same engine displacement. When I first got it and it was acting up, it was due to exactly that: Plugged cap vent creating a vacuum in the tank.

I'd get a vented cap on there. But before running any more, I'd also be trying to figure out why gas was getting into the case. Even if my thoughts on vacuum vs. pressure are wrong, I just can't see how pressure alone would fill the case that full of gas. Sounds to me like either a stuck needle valve or bad pump diaphragm (if it has a pump, which I don't think it does). And a stuck needle valve (and/or bad pump diaphragm) definitely need to be fixed, as they won't do any favours for your engine.
 
Okay here's something to consider we have several wheel lines and to move them they have a gas powered small engine/attached to a hydraulic pump. We made the mistake of using pump gas that had ethenol mixed in with the gas. Alcohol draws moisture and with that being said,water goes down hill and when it freezes over the winter it hangs the float open, now it goes through the intake and around the pistons and fills the crankcase with fuel. This hydro locking the motor
 
Okay here's something to consider we have several wheel lines and to move them they have a gas powered small engine/attached to a hydraulic pump. We made the mistake of using pump gas that had ethenol mixed in with the gas. Alcohol draws moisture and with that being said,water goes down hill and when it freezes over the winter it hangs the float open, now it goes through the intake and around the pistons and fills the crankcase with fuel. Thus hydro locking the engine we switched the fuel to ethenol free and that did away with that situation
 
The 2-70 with all of your help is becoming a working tractor. Unusual thing, couple weeks ago went to start it and it seemed locked up. Pulled the dipstick and it was clear full of gas. So I pulled all the sparkplugs and turned it over and it was hydrolocked with gas above the pistons! So, new sparkplugs and oil and filter change and it fired right up and I moved it10 feet like I originally was going to do. But, I have started shutting off the gas at the sediment bowl. I was using it Friday to stage some wagons as I had a semi bringing in 53 big square bales. Coming up the driveway it started its old coughing and sputtering so I shut it off and let it cool down and changed the inline fuel filter. This leads us to yesterday, while unloading the semi it coughed and sputtered once, I shut it off, then restsrted it and continued unloading the semi so the driver could get on his way. I then loaded three wagons and we went to the barn and I stacked hay. About halfway done, it was lunch time and noticed it might need hydraulic fluid. After lunch added hydraulic fluid, 5 gallons of gas and finished up by 4 pm. Getting off of the tractor at the end of the day I heard a hisss. Found it coming out of the top of the gas cap. Touched the gas cap and it was HOT! And I mean HOT to the touch much like a radiator cap. Thinking I would release the pressure I used my shop rag and took off the cap. Loud whoosh and then gas started to splash up like a wave! Got the cap back on and sat down and waited to see if a fire was getting ready to start. After a while, I shut off the gas which by the way is in a most unaccessable spot on this tractor with side shield and loader. Thought I would see what you all have to say about this. Yes, am buying a new gas cap by the way.
Could a metal heat shield be missing from the fuel tank? Allowing gasoline to boil off can be an expensive waste of fuel. Maybe add some fiberglass insulation or a metal heat shield between the fuel tank and the engine to reduce fuel boiling?
 
Could a metal heat shield be missing from the fuel tank? Allowing gasoline to boil off can be an expensive waste of fuel. Maybe add some fiberglass insulation or a metal heat shield between the fuel tank and the engine to reduce fuel boiling?
On the 1650 1655 the sides above the bell housing and 2 speed are open. Might take your side covers off to let some of that heat out if the new gas cap doesn't help.
 
The gas cap off of the 1650 seemed to not get hot or cause any problems, but before I could get the second load of hay to the barn something hydraulic let go under the hood by the Hi Lo shifter on the right side. Got the loader off and hope to have it in the shop this week and take the tins off and see if it is the hydro (correct term??) or a power steering line. Let you know when I know.
 
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