20 hp Kohler command?

[Geo-TH,In]

My terramite has a 20 HP Kohler command with hydraulic lifters, over 2000+ hours. For some reason after it sits for weeks it only starts on the right cylinder for about 10 seconds before the left cylinder kicks in . Both sparks are clean so i discount a spark issue, There is only one carb, so I discount a fuel issue because it runs fine after a few seconds. I'm guessing a valve issue. possibly a rusty valve stem or a hydraulic lifter problem. Do you have a 21 year old kohler command with a similar problem?
When I have time and it warms up. i will remove the valve cover and observe the valves to see if one valve Is stuck open. MY Jubilee exhaust valve stuck open. I sprayed wd40 on the valve stem and inside the cylinder and put the pushrod back in place. After running on 3 cylinders for about 10 seconds the valve broke loose and ran fine.

 

[john in la]

I will add.
If you replace the lifters make sure you follow the pump down process when installing.
If you tighten down on the rocker and the valve spring compresses you will bend the push rod when you crank the motor up.

 

[used red MN]

Did you put your tainted Jubilee gas in the T-mite?

He caused the problem on his Jubilee trying to appease his needed assurance that it was a running tractor. Started it for 5 minutes every week or two. Moisture built up in the valve cover and rusted his valves.

 

[rrman61]

My terramite has a 20 HP Kohler command with hydraulic lifters, over 2000+ hours. For some reason after it sits for weeks it only starts on the right cylinder for about 10 seconds before the left cylinder kicks in . Both sparks are clean so i discount a spark issue, There is only one carb, so I discount a fuel issue because it runs fine after a few seconds. I'm guessing a valve issue. possibly a rusty valve stem or a hydraulic lifter problem. Do you have a 21 year old kohler command with a similar problem?
When I have time and it warms up. i will remove the valve cover and observe the valves to see if one valve Is stuck open. MY Jubilee exhaust valve stuck open. I sprayed wd40 on the valve stem and inside the cylinder and put the pushrod back in place. After running on 3 cylinders for about 10 seconds the valve broke loose and ran fine.

My terramite has a 20 HP Kohler command with hydraulic lifters, over 2000+ hours. For some reason after it sits for weeks it only starts on the right cylinder for about 10 seconds before the left cylinder kicks in . Both sparks are clean so i discount a spark issue, There is only one carb, so I discount a fuel issue because it runs fine after a few seconds. I'm guessing a valve issue. possibly a rusty valve stem or a hydraulic lifter problem. Do you have a 21 year old kohler command with a similar problem?
When I have time and it warms up. i will remove the valve cover and observe the valves to see if one valve Is stuck open. MY Jubilee exhaust valve stuck open. I sprayed wd40 on the valve stem and inside the cylinder and put the pushrod back in place. After running on 3 cylinders for about 10 seconds the valve broke loose and ran fine.

had the same problem it was a weak coil on one side

 

[Ken Combs]

I agree that it’s likely a lifter problem. Air cooled engines are not quiet runners, especially cold, so those of us with poor hearing never notice the clicks.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I vote you have a lifter going bad. Some snake oil in the engine oil may clean it up enough it goes to working again.

The lifter works fine after one day because it has not had time to leak down. Letting the motor sit for weeks allows the lifter to leak down and the motor to run bad on start up. Once the oil pressure gets up the lifter again pumps up allowing the motor to run correctly.

John,
Thanks for confirming what I have suspected all along, a hydraulic lifter issue. Any recommendation on a good snake oil? BTW I change the oil and filter after 50 hours. I use 10w30. I've been thinking of using T4 oil I use in my kubota, Is that a good or bad idea?

 

[Geo-TH,In]

had the same problem it was a weak coil on one side

I don't think it is a coil issue because spark plugs are clean on both cylinders

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I agree that it’s likely a lifter problem. Air cooled engines are not quiet runners, especially cold, so those of us with poor hearing never notice the clicks.

I have poor hearing, I think the floating crystals in my inner ear is my problem and yes sorting out background noises is a real problem. any recommendations on snake oil and motor oil?

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I ordered Liqui Moly Hydraulic Lifter Additive and Marvel Mystery Oil. Is using T4 oil a good Idea?

 

[john in la]

John,
Thanks for confirming what I have suspected all along, a hydraulic lifter issue. Any recommendation on a good snake oil? BTW I change the oil and filter after 50 hours. I use 10w30. I've been thinking of using T4 oil I use in my kubota, Is that a good or bad idea?

If varnish causing the lifter check valve to stick open is the problem you can try marvels mystery oil in the engine oil for a fix.
If the check valve is worn from use (more likely) no snake oil will fix the problem.

I never use water cooled engine oil in a small air cooled engine. I use engine oil specifically designed for small engines. Just like water and air cooled 2 cycle oil is different water cooled and air cooled engine oil is different. I use JD oil in my Kawasaki motor

 

[Geo-TH,In]

If varnish causing the lifter check valve to stick open is the problem you can try marvels mystery oil in the engine oil for a fix.
If the check valve is worn from use (more likely) no snake oil will fix the problem.

I never use water cooled engine oil in a small air cooled engine. I use engine oil specifically designed for small engines. Just like water and air cooled 2 cycle oil is different water cooled and air cooled engine oil is different. I use JD oil in my Kawasaki motor

Can you explain the difference in air cooled motor oil? YES I suspect an engine with 2000+ hours has worn parts. I can't see buying a new engine or rebuilding the old engine for a problem that occurs for about 10 seconds after sitting for an extended period. T4 oil traditionally diesel oil has more detergents

 

[john in la]

Small engine oil is formulated for higher temperatures with hot spots
Why do you use small engine oil in a small engine. Because that is what the manufacturer tells you to use.
That's all I have to say about that.

I would never rebuild a motor that has a loose valve tap only on start up and cleared itself up in a short time.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Can you explain the difference in air cooled motor oil? YES I suspect an engine with 2000+ hours has worn parts. I can't see buying a new engine or rebuilding the old engine for a problem that occurs for about 10 seconds after sitting for an extended period. T4 oil traditionally diesel oil has more detergents

Kohler specifies non-detergent, high zinc or ZDDP oil in their engines. Briggs & Tecumseh are/were the same.

I do recall the SAE Low Ash, non detergent 30w from Case IH was acceptable in the Kohler engine on our new CC & did not void the warranty.

Will any of your additives add detergents to the oil?

Mike

 

[cumminstinkerer]

Just curious @Geo-TH,In but don't those use a funky valve and lifter decompression setup? Seems like they did, but that may only BS engines, I think my first step would be to check and adjust valve lash, I know on the ones that had that weird decomp stuff they were super picky, I've done BS engines but cant recall on a Kohler

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Just curious @Geo-TH,In but don't those use a funky valve and lifter decompression setup? Seems like they did, but that may only BS engines, I think my first step would be to check and adjust valve lash, I know on the ones that had that weird decomp stuff they were super picky, I've done BS engines but cant recall on a Kohler

I have a 20 HP Kohler command with hydraulic lifters and I don't know anything more than that about how they work or if they have a cam with decompression .

 

[kencombs]

I have poor hearing, I think the floating crystals in my inner ear is my problem and yes sorting out background noises is a real problem. any recommendations on snake oil and motor oil?

JMHO, but I'd stick with a synthetic oil as one of their benefits is high temp performance
specifically I think Valvoline Restore and Protect would be worth a try. Seems to have the clean and lube functions covered.

But, if you want to do some diagnostics first, maybe pull valve covers and check before starting.

My terramite has a 20 HP Kohler command with hydraulic lifters, over 2000+ hours. For some reason after it sits for weeks it only starts on the right cylinder for about 10 seconds before the left cylinder kicks in . Both sparks are clean so i discount a spark issue, There is only one carb, so I discount a fuel issue because it runs fine after a few seconds. I'm guessing a valve issue. possibly a rusty valve stem or a hydraulic lifter problem. Do you have a 21 year old kohler command with a similar problem?
When I have time and it warms up. i will remove the valve cover and observe the valves to see if one valve Is stuck open. MY Jubilee exhaust valve stuck open. I sprayed wd40 on the valve stem and inside the cylinder and put the pushrod back in place. After running on 3 cylinders for about 10 seconds the valve broke loose and ran fine.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

I have a 20 HP Kohler command with hydraulic lifters and I don't know anything more than that about how they work or if they have a cam with decompression .

I cant really say for sure either on kohler, I know BS does it somehow with the cam and lifters, it's been a few years since I worked on one, I just remember them being very picky about valve lash and how you had to set the valve clearance!

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@Geo-TH,In after a quick google search they are a lot like a small block chevy, tighten down to a specific torque at a set point in crank rotation, I still wouldn't over look that they have moved, also I know on the Deer zero turns with the Kohlers they wer very prone to debris pluggin the cooling fins and getting hot, they would then slip the valve guides, but I would think that would be more constant of an issue, howver I have one that I looked at for a neighbor that either slipped the guides or just smoked them really bad and if you get her to fire an go then its fine, but its a bear to get lit up. It has manual valve adjust but you can wiggle the valves back and forth in the guides, near as I can figure the valve are cocking just enough to knock the compression down on that hole and make it dumb to get started

 

[Duey C]

Another grain of salt: Kohlers and engine oil. We used the 18. 20, 22 and 25 Commands.
We were using two different oils. 10-30 oil for the Kohlers and 10-30 Diesel oil for...the Diesels of course.
Purchasing agent was lazy, wanted to know if we could just use the Diesel oil for all engines.

Eh, I don't know but I'll call and ask. I called the manager at our supplier.
Hey Tom, here's a question: Can we use 10-30 Diesel oil in our Kohler engines without breaking warranty?
I could hear the smile or small chuckle thru the phone. He said yes you can, it's better oil!

So we did from then on with that blessing. I was happy as a lark to be able to tell our customers that they could do that also.
They probably still use 10-30 Diesel oil in their Kohlers.

Food for thought about longevity of Kohlers: If I recall, 1500-2000 hrs is the typical lifespan right?
How about this? UPS was pushing these engines up to 10,000 hours on our equipment but they were absolutely religious about changing oil at 100 hours. Typed correctly 10,000 hrs.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Another grain of salt: Kohlers and engine oil. We used the 18. 20, 22 and 25 Commands.
We were using two different oils. 10-30 oil for the Kohlers and 10-30 Diesel oil for...the Diesels of course.
Purchasing agent was lazy, wanted to know if we could just use the Diesel oil for all engines.

Eh, I don't know but I'll call and ask. I called the manager at our supplier.
Hey Tom, here's a question: Can we use 10-30 Diesel oil in our Kohler engines without breaking warranty?
I could hear the smile or small chuckle thru the phone. He said yes you can, it's better oil!

So we did from then on with that blessing. I was happy as a lark to be able to tell our customers that they could do that also.
They probably still use 10-30 Diesel oil in their Kohlers.

Food for thought about longevity of Kohlers: If I recall, 1500-2000 hrs is the typical lifespan right?
How about this? UPS was pushing these engines up to 10,000 hours on our equipment but they were absolutely religious about changing oil at 100 hours. Typed correctly 10,000 hrs.

Thanks for confirming what I thought about diesel oil. It is good for engines without O 2 sensors and Cadillac converters. I change my oil every 50 hours because the oil looks dark. Which is why I want to use diesel oil with more detergents to suspend the carbon particles.

 

[T.R.K.]

I have worked on small engines since 2008. As I understand it, Kohler has had problems with their hydraulic lifters off and on for years. Personally, if it was me, and you only ran for a few seconds on one cylinder, I wouldn't worry about it..
That said:
Kohler recommends 10w30 engines in their Command engines specifically because they have hydraulic lifters. You are running 10w30 in it aren't you?

Also, I would put an in-line spark tester on both of the spark plug wires and make sure both cylinders had spark when starting. If your engine has the black spark control module on the side, I would definately check for spark. Now that those modules have some years on them they sometimes do crazy things. There is an update kit that does away with the module, it had different ignition coils and is not cheap. And if your Terramite has a pto on the flywheel side of the engine, you will probably have to pull the engine to change ignition coils.

Most of the problems I see from the lifters in these engines if they sit a while are they are really noisy for several minutes. After the engine warms up they get much quieter.