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202 Steering update

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
B

BIG1RED9

Member
For those that may remember, I had one hell of a time with my power steering. I could not find a replacement steering shaft that would work properly etc etc. I had the leaked fixed and for me, I enjoyed the assistance of it. Fast forward past the snow and hammering rain(it was kept bone dry), I fired it up and the column is leaking again.

The valve that Cary had discussed awhile back is the source of the problem. Fluid coming out of the column through the seal is a symptom. The valve wears and that wear allows fluid to pass between the valve body and the spool, sending it into the column. The seal can not hold back the pressure. It is not meant to.
Trying to keep my cost down but want to do it right the first time if possible. More than 50 repairs since buying it and it adds up. The valve is more than $550. Could I trust the quality? Don't know who makes it and do not want to be doing this again in 13 months. This caused me to look for an alternative. I read about

1.Tapping into the column so that the fluid that should not be there can be directed to the return side.
2. Machining of the spool to allow three o-rings to be added.
3. Have a hydraulic seal used/install in place of the standard seal.

I am having a machinist make a few parts for me and have discussed with him either the o-ring concept or my idea is to re-bore the valve body and make a new spool. Also going to have him build up and machine my steering shaft. So by the weekend I should know what direction I am going.
 
(quoted from post at 16:13:17 04/10/19) For those that may remember, I had one hell of a time with my power steering. I could not find a replacement steering shaft that would work properly etc etc. I had the leaked fixed and for me, I enjoyed the assistance of it. Fast forward past the snow and hammering rain(it was kept bone dry), I fired it up and the column is leaking again.

The valve that Cary had discussed awhile back is the source of the problem. Fluid coming out of the column through the seal is a symptom. The valve wears and that wear allows fluid to pass between the valve body and the spool, sending it into the column. The seal can not hold back the pressure. It is not meant to.
Trying to keep my cost down but want to do it right the first time if possible. More than 50 repairs since buying it and it adds up. The valve is more than $550. Could I trust the quality? Don't know who makes it and do not want to be doing this again in 13 months. This caused me to look for an alternative. I read about

1.Tapping into the column so that the fluid that should not be there can be directed to the return side.
2. Machining of the spool to allow three o-rings to be added.
3. Have a hydraulic seal used/install in place of the standard seal.

I am having a machinist make a few parts for me and have discussed with him either the o-ring concept or my idea is to re-bore the valve body and make a new spool. Also going to have him build up and machine my steering shaft. So by the weekend I should know what direction I am going.
Click to expand...

Good luck BIGRED9, I'm anxious to here how you got it to work, if indeed you do. I've got a hunch the valve body in mine is the problem also. I'm just a bit leery about shelling out $550 smackers and have a new valve not solve the problem.
 
(quoted from post at 20:11:14 04/10/19)
It was great while it lasted!
Click to expand...

I also saw that video about tapping the upper shaft body and plumbing it back into the return. But, I got to thinking about that. I suppose that could work as long as the leak wasn't that bad and the newly plumbed "return" could handle the amount of fluid that was leaking past the control valve.

But if the leak was really bad, would that newly plumbed "return" be able to handle all the fluid escaping from that valve. After all, there is no "seal" per sae in the top of the column just under the steering wheel. It's just a dust seal. So once that valve leak is putting out more than the new "return" can handle, it seems that it would just start leaking out the top of the column again.

What do you think?
 

It seems that most who tried it were successful. I read about one fellow who continued t have problems. I think they all concluded that using a 3/8" line would handle the flow for most.

I want to try and stop the leak because to me that means the valve is impacting the assistance. I am however going to tap a 3/8" hole and plug it in case my leak fix ideas fail.
 
You say you couldn't find a replacement shaft that would work properly. I know that on a 35 massey there's a difference in diameter between the power steering models and the manual. Could a previous owner put in the wrong shaft to start with? If the 202 uses the same ps shaft as the 35 then I have a spare. Hate your still leaking but am following as my 35 ps steering has no assist.
 

The edge/side of the nut (part that has teeth) on the new part was squared off. On mine it was rounded and the teeth cut a bit different. This caused a binding. The diameter and length were correct. pics here https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1376418&highlight=

The shaft from a power steering 35 and the earliest 202 are the same part number. No idea if that is what I have as mine is so early that it is a MHF 202 and not a MF 202. No idea if yours would be a candidate. Depending on what the machinist says, I may explore yours further as an option, thank you.

The leak is caused by the power steering valve.

If you know, what works or doesn't work on yours?

Regards,
Don
 
(quoted from post at 06:15:07 04/12/19)
Does your setup have a cylinder at each wheel (my setup) to supply the assist or off the steering column?
Click to expand...

My setup has a cylinder at each wheel.
 

Same as mine.

Machinist just left. As it relates the the steering he is going to..

1. Build up my steering shaft and machine it to size.
2. Machine the cover to replace the seal with a hydraulic seal and tap a 3/8" hole and plug it (in case down the road I have issues) and want to run a line to the return.
3. Hone out the valve body and make a new spool with o-ring grooved into it or use the existing spool and cut it for o-rings.

Overkill, but for the steering I like overkill.
 
Sounds like it should work. I'm curious to know if you have an approximate price for such work. The last time I dropped something off at a machinist, I ended up with sticker shock.....completely my fault because I didn't tell him the parts didn't need to be identical to the old ones. Live and learn. Just wondering how this job will compare with the cost of the new aftermarket part.
 

I am guessing I will know more in about a week. Verbal rough estimates were in the $50 to $100 range for each part he was working on.
 
(quoted from post at 09:28:16 04/17/19)
I am guessing I will know more in about a week. Verbal rough estimates were in the $50 to $100 range for each part he was working on.
Click to expand...

Thanks, we're all waiting to hear the results. :wink:
 
Although the work has not yet begun on the steering, after the machinists evaluation and discussion he had with others. He wants me to make sure that there are no restrictions in return line side.
Assuming there is none, we have concluded that...
1. The spool is basically in specs and that the valve body is where the wear took place.
2. That the leaks impact on the quality of the steering is minor. 3. He does not have the confidence that o-rings can be made to work as I have explained because of how the wear showed up in my valve body

To make a mechanical fit (re-bore the body, make a larger spool and lap the parts together would cost as much is a replacement valve.

So I have decided to treat the symptom rather than fix the problem. The source of the fluid is the valve. I am going to install a hydraulic seal to match the build up / machined steering shaft. Even though the seal I am going to put in will not allow the fluid past it I am tapping the cover for a 3/8" tee fitting in the return line to allow the fluid to flow to the return line.

Don

(preparing this email made me think of another option. That would be to bore the valve and groove the spool for o-rings which I am going to explore with him).
 
I started to do research on the setup Inno installed on his 202 and replace the valve, and steering column with new orbital setup. Pic attached.

While not original I think a setup like this might make more sense.



mvphoto34994.jpg
 

I am going to replace the steering valve with a more current orbital setup. I am not sure if I am going to use or eliminate the power steering pump. Given I am replacing the front hydraulic pump, now would be the time to up the GPM to supply the steering and the loader. That is balanced against my concern that all these projects are going to eat up a lot more time.
 
What I have learned so far...

The valve below is what I have on order. It is a Char Lynn 241-1004-002. When considering a 100% hydraulic system the following needs to be considered.
1. The amount of fluid in the cylinders to determine pump sizing. If the cylinders hold 10 cubic inches of fluid and you get a 10 cubic inch pump, the steering wheel rotation will be 1. If the pump was 5 cubic inches then the rotation from right to left would be 2
2. Make sure it has a manual steering check valve. That way if the engine dies you have manual hydraulic steering.
3. There is Reaction or Non Reaction valves. Select the proper one for you.

Non Reaction valves do not provide road feedback nor auto return to center if released.

Reaction valves will provide road feedback and if you let go of the wheel will return to center on its own.

I did not want the steering to wrench my shoulders if it hit a rut nor if I let my grip go to change course so I selected a non reaction valve.

The existing hydraulic system can be used with the existing lines connected to the new valve or you can use the front hydraulic pump with a priority flow control. This will take away from your pumps capacity by the GPM it will use. I am still learning and not 100% clear on the flow control valve(s) required as both the GPM and the PSI needs to match the valve.

The valve I am buying requires 4GPM at 1800 PSI. The pump I am looking at puts out about 20GPM at 3600 PSI. The flow control is suppose to manage the difference.

Previously I changed the loader spool to a Prince and made an adapter for the hydraulic fluid to dump in the tank.

When using the front pump, the fluid goes to the flow control valve which on one circuit directs the GPM required at the PSI required to the steering valve. The second circuit goes unaffected to the loader spool. A relief line from the flow control goes back to the tank should the pressure exceed the PSI setting. There needs to be a return line from the steering valve to the tank as well.

In my setup if there is room, I am planning to have the pressure relief and the steering valve return be separate lines dumping into the tank via the previously mentioned adapter for the loader spool valve.

Logic tells me I should be able to remove the drag links and anything else mechanically related to the steering as there are new identical cylinders on each side. I will have to verify how it all works a step at a time. The pump and the current plumbing would then also be removed.

When completed I expect about 2 turns from full right to left with car like resistance. We shall see

241-1004-002
mvphoto35150.jpg
 
I think you are definitely on the right track, I really couldn't add much more to your synopsis.
 

I have not yet researched how you sync the cylinders or align the front. Do you recall how you went about it or have a link that covers it?

Thanks,
Don
 
I left my drag links in place back to the steering sectors. That tied the front wheels together. After that, once hooked up just bleed the system by turning it lock to lock a few times and everything should sync itself up. I simply put a tee from one cylinder to the other on both hoses, much like the original setup.
 


If I understand how you did the conversion, the steering shaft was removed which is the only part that connects the right and left side. So it must self center.
Thanks
Don

Well it seems someone opened the box removed the valve and stuffed it with paper while in UPS possession AND IT WAS the last one. Really go to set me back time wise
 
The left and right side connect together through the sector gears. Removing the steering shaft takes away the steering input from the original wheel but still keeps the front wheels tied together and aligned.

I hope you can track down the valve without too much hassle. Hopefully they forgot to put it in the box before shipping and it's still sitting with the supplier.
 
You would think I would have remembered the sectors connected.

I have asked for a credit and buying a new setup from an off road monster truck outfit. Even if UPS finds it, I don't trust it hasn't been seriously beat up.

Take care,
Don
 
With my adapter arriving today, I thought I would share pictures and some information on my power steering modifications. The pictures that follow are of the adapter I had made, the new orbital valve and the steering column.

The rectangular plate bolts to the steering housing. The supply and return hydraulic lines from the power steering pump as well as the right and left hydraulic lines to the cylinders will be attached to the 4 ports on the orbital valve.

Once installed, I will update with more pictures.


mvphoto36839.jpg


mvphoto36837.jpg


mvphoto36838.jpg


mvphoto36836.jpg


mvphoto36840.jpg


mvphoto36841.jpg


mvphoto36842.jpg
 

Thank you. Grateful for your input.

Rough installed today to check for clearances and ordering hoses / fittings. Going to add gussets to the adapter while waiting.

mvphoto36866.jpg


mvphoto36867.jpg


mvphoto36864.jpg


mvphoto36865.jpg
 

So, let me ask you this. If your power steering pump goes out or you bust a hose, you have no manual steering?
 

Depends what goes. If the engine died then you have manual steering. If a hose to the wheel hydraulic cylinders busted then nope. Not sure if a supply line or return blew out what would happen.
 
(quoted from post at 11:30:28 05/29/19)
Depends what goes. If the engine died then you have manual steering. If a hose to the wheel hydraulic cylinders busted then nope. Not sure if a supply line or return blew out what would happen.
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I must be missing something. In your next to last pic above, I see that nothing is going into the steering gear box. If the engine dies, how do you have manual steering? Are you using the stock power steering pump or something electric?
 
The Char-Lynn steering valves will operate as a pump if there is no input. It's stiff to turn but no worse than manual steering.
 
An orbital valve for the most part = Char-Lynn steering valve. Its like Band-aid vs adhesive bandage.

As Inno stated it uses hydraulic pressure to cause steering to operate in a manual mode.
 
Done!

It is like a 70's Cadillac. A 5 year old could steer it.

I used the factory power steering pump. In total about $600.
 
(quoted from post at 17:13:58 06/09/19) Done!

It is like a 70's Cadillac. A 5 year old could steer it.

I used the factory power steering pump. In total about $600.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it's working for you. You wouldn't happen to have a drawing for that adapter with the dimensions, would you?
 

I told the machinist to take dimensions down in case others want to buy one from him.

If you want I can ask if he did and if he did you will need to order the same orbital and steering column. You will also need a new steering wheel. I can get his contact info and a price.

While during the mock ups there were lots of changes made until it was close to being perfect, during my installation, I ran into 2 issues.
1. I had to bend the dash to allow for the orbital I selected.
2. I had to add about 3/16" in spacers to raise the dash up to have the throttle clear the adapter. The machinist might be able to modify the adapter so that is not an issue.
 
(quoted from post at 18:44:05 06/09/19)
I told the machinist to take dimensions down in case others want to buy one from him.

If you want I can ask if he did and if he did you will need to order the same orbital and steering column. You will also need a new steering wheel. I can get his contact info and a price.

While during the mock ups there were lots of changes made until it was close to being perfect, during my installation, I ran into 2 issues.
1. I had to bend the dash to allow for the orbital I selected.
2. I had to add about 3/16" in spacers to raise the dash up to have the throttle clear the adapter. The machinist might be able to modify the adapter so that is not an issue.
Click to expand...

Would you mind telling us what he charged you?
 

I got 2 parts at once for $220. I think it was $100, but it would be for him to decide on the price to make additional copies. I won't be involved past the introduction. He has higher priority customers that have to come first, but he is fair, honest and does good work.
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:48 06/10/19)
I got 2 parts at once for $220. I think it was $100, but it would be for him to decide on the price to make additional copies. I won't be involved past the introduction. He has higher priority customers that have to come first, but he is fair, honest and does good work.
Click to expand...

What was the other part you got besides that adapter?
 

Its not related to the steering. I had him make a number of parts for the loader, hydraulics, front axle and rebuilt my loader bucket
 
(quoted from post at 18:44:05 06/09/19)
I told the machinist to take dimensions down in case others want to buy one from him.

[color=red:42a2da487e]If you want I can ask if he did and if he did you will need to order the same orbital and steering column. You will also need a new steering wheel. I can get his contact info and a price.
[/color:42a2da487e]
While during the mock ups there were lots of changes made until it was close to being perfect, during my installation, I ran into 2 issues.
1. I had to bend the dash to allow for the orbital I selected.
2. I had to add about 3/16" in spacers to raise the dash up to have the throttle clear the adapter. The machinist might be able to modify the adapter so that is not an issue.
Click to expand...

I would appreciate if you could do that. You can contact me with any info at [email protected][/b]
 
(quoted from post at 09:21:04 06/11/19)
Your welcome.

Email sent
Click to expand...

I went to Rockwells site and saw that they have a power steering kit for $499.99. I take it that you did not order that kit, you just ordered the orbital valve and steering column?

If that's the case, what size orbital valve and what size column did you order? Do you actually have the part numbers for them?

Is the valve and the column all you needed besides fittings and hoses? And of course the adapter.

Thank You
 

Cary. In my case my power steering pump was working and within 50 hrs of use I installed new hydraulic cylinders.

Assuming your pump is good (should be it newer) and your hydraulic cylinders and good as well, then yes the valve, column, hoses and fittings along with the adapter is all you need.

I suggest you call and talk to the person I gave you in the email to make sure the parts match dimensionally to the ones sent to me.

I ordered the 100ml or 6.10 cubic inch orbital steering control kit and selected the 9" column.

If your wheel cylinders are smaller than mine then it will take less turns right to left. If yours are larger it will take more turns. I do not see how they would be different or if they are how the difference could be huge, but if to you that might be important then you need the diameter of the cylinder and its length to confirm things.

Your welcome.
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:05 06/11/19)
Cary. In my case my power steering pump was working and within 50 hrs of use I installed new hydraulic cylinders.

Assuming your pump is good (should be it newer) and your hydraulic cylinders and good as well, then yes the valve, column, hoses and fittings along with the adapter is all you need.

I suggest you call and talk to the person I gave you in the email to make sure the parts match dimensionally to the ones sent to me.

I ordered the 100ml or 6.10 cubic inch orbital steering control kit and selected the 9" column.

If your wheel cylinders are smaller than mine then it will take less turns right to left. If yours are larger it will take more turns. I do not see how they would be different or if they are how the difference could be huge, but if to you that might be important then you need the diameter of the cylinder and its length to confirm things.

Your welcome.
Click to expand...

Sorry it was $344.99 delivered.
 
You will need to order a new steering wheel.

11/16" 36 spline. If you want a tractor looking wheel then look at Oliver Super 550 and some other Olivers. If you don't care, it might be a part that a boat/speedboat shop has or if you really don't care I think I tracked it down to a GM shaft.
 
(quoted from post at 15:50:17 06/11/19) You will need to order a new steering wheel.

11/16" 36 spline. If you want a tractor looking wheel then look at Oliver Super 550 and some other Olivers. If you don't care, it might be a part that a boat/speedboat shop has or if you really don't care I think I tracked it down to a GM shaft.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much. I'll see what I can find. I'll post back here with my install. I really like this tractor but would love it if the power steering worked.
 
(quoted from post at 18:46:30 06/11/19)
I can hard right to hard left using one finger with the loader full. :D
Click to expand...

Don, still figuring this stuff out. Below is a drawing of the stock 202 power steering system. It starts out with those steel lines (11 & 10). Did you replace them with regular hose?

On those lines I suppose one would go to R and the other to L as the valve is shown on that website. Did you still use tee's (14) and run the four hoses as pictured, two for each cylinder?

Thanks
Cary

V4TleoKh.jpg
 

I replaced #3, 4, 10 and 11 with 3/8" / #6 JIC female ended hoses. I used 2-24" from the tee to the valve and 2-48" from the pump to the valve. They might be a bit long - but nothing that caused me to go OH NO!

I also replaced both #14's and added a 90 JIC so that it would come out on a better angle.

On the pump I used Pipe/JIC's so checking engine oil would be easier. I am not positive but I think the pipe was 1/4" male and the JIC was 3/8" or #6 male. I pulled the pieces and paid the premium to work it out at NAPA.

There is a tank, pump right and left hoses. Mark each as you take it apart will make it a little bit easier putting it together.
 
(quoted from post at 19:38:46 06/11/19)
I replaced #3, 4, 10 and 11 with 3/8" / #6 JIC female ended hoses. I used 2-24" from the tee to the valve and 2-48" from the pump to the valve. They might be a bit long - but nothing that caused me to go OH NO!

I also replaced both #14's and added a 90 JIC so that it would come out on a better angle.

On the pump I used Pipe/JIC's so checking engine oil would be easier. I am not positive but I think the pipe was 1/4" male and the JIC was 3/8" or #6 male. I pulled the pieces and paid the premium to work it out at NAPA.

There is a tank, pump right and left hoses. Mark each as you take it apart will make it a little bit easier putting it together.
Click to expand...

Sorry the fittings at the pump I sued were 45's to change the angle of the hose entering the pump.
 
(quoted from post at 05:36:00 06/12/19)
(quoted from post at 19:38:46 06/11/19)
I replaced #3, 4, 10 and 11 with 3/8" / #6 JIC female ended hoses. I used 2-24" from the tee to the valve and 2-48" from the pump to the valve. They might be a bit long - but nothing that caused me to go OH NO!

I also replaced both #14's and added a 90 JIC so that it would come out on a better angle.

On the pump I used Pipe/JIC's so checking engine oil would be easier. I am not positive but I think the pipe was 1/4" male and the JIC was 3/8" or #6 male. I pulled the pieces and paid the premium to work it out at NAPA.

There is a tank, pump right and left hoses. Mark each as you take it apart will make it a little bit easier putting it together.
Click to expand...

Sorry the fittings at the pump I sued were 45's to change the angle of the hose entering the pump.
Click to expand...

You didn't say anything about replacing the hoses (12 & 13) from the T's to the cylinders. Were you able to use those stock hoses?
 

No need...unless yours leak or you want new ones. Make sure if you buy a new tee, that the hose end fitting go into the right and lest side of the tee.
 
(quoted from post at 16:06:38 06/12/19)
No need...unless yours leak or you want new ones. Make sure if you buy a new tee, that the hose end fitting go into the right and lest side of the tee.
Click to expand...

Do you happen to know what those hose end fittings are called? I'm not familiar with any nomenclature when it comes to hydraulics.
 
I suggest that you take the hydraulic line from the pump to the tee and the tee to a physical store to match them up. No idea if mine were the same as yours and I did as I am suggesting. I went to NAPA with a few parts, we walked through what I was doing and left with the parts. You could try a hydraulics shop as well.

Once out of the tee, use JIC fittings to match the orbital. I would confirm that the orbital your being shipped is coming with #6 or 3/8 male JIC fittings (they are the same #6= 6/16" #8 = 8/16"), assuming it is coming with #6 then use #6 JIC female hose ends for all the hoses and make sure the "middle" part of the tee is a #6 male JIC.

I changed my pump in and out fittings. I used 45 degree fittings for better dipstick access. Match your current pump fitting on one end and the other a #6 male JIC
 
(quoted from post at 16:41:03 06/12/19) I suggest that you take the hydraulic line from the pump to the tee and the tee to a physical store to match them up. No idea if mine were the same as yours and I did as I am suggesting. I went to NAPA with a few parts, we walked through what I was doing and left with the parts. You could try a hydraulics shop as well.

Once out of the tee, use JIC fittings to match the orbital. I would confirm that the orbital your being shipped is coming with #6 or 3/8 male JIC fittings (they are the same #6= 6/16" #8 = 8/16"), assuming it is coming with #6 then use #6 JIC female hose ends for all the hoses and make sure the "middle" part of the tee is a #6 male JIC.

I changed my pump in and out fittings. I used 45 degree fittings for better dipstick access. Match your current pump fitting on one end and the other a #6 male JIC
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help. I will do as you suggested. I do have a Napa in my town. They made up a new hose for me when one of mine on my 8N's FEL blew out.
 
(quoted from post at 16:41:03 06/12/19)[color=red:00ee341b5a] I suggest that you take the hydraulic line from the pump to the tee and the tee to a physical store to match them up. [/color:00ee341b5a]No idea if mine were the same as yours and I did as I am suggesting. I went to NAPA with a few parts, we walked through what I was doing and left with the parts. You could try a hydraulics shop as well.

Once out of the tee, use JIC fittings to match the orbital. I would confirm that the orbital your being shipped is coming with #6 or 3/8 male JIC fittings (they are the same #6= 6/16" #8 = 8/16"), assuming it is coming with #6 then use #6 JIC female hose ends for all the hoses and make sure the "middle" part of the tee is a #6 male JIC.

I changed my pump in and out fittings. I used 45 degree fittings for better dipstick access. Match your current pump fitting on one end and the other a #6 male JIC
Click to expand...

Sorry but you lost me on the above in red. There is no hydraulic line from the pump to the TEE fittings. Both lines from the pump go to valve itself. Sorry to be such a pia. I guess this will get a little easier once I have all the parts in front of me and I have the dash off again.
 

Your welcome.

Today was my first work day with all the changes I made. As an example...I used my bucket to make about a 2 high foot pile of dirt. I was able to drive along side the pile, turn the front wheels after passing it and able to line up the box blade to catch the pile for leveling - with one hand and without having to backup.

It was so much worth the cost and the process.
 

Your right

1. Take the pump fitting that the hose connects to
2. Take a hose from the cylinder to the tee and the tee

To many distractions on my end.
 
Where did you tap the column? How did you tie it to the return? Where could the new valve assembly be purchased.? Your help is invaluable. Take a bow.
 
Hello sir. I think this is the route I want to go in fixing up my 202 steering problem. Where to start? Is there a video of the conversion? A contact at Rockwell? Any info you could share would be VERY much appreciated.
 

Hi Deecee,

In general the process requires a new steering valve, column, adapter and hoses. This assumes the pump and cylinders are good.

Putting aside the installation of the valve, the process is...
1. Output line from pump to the valve input.
2. Output line from the valve to the input of the pump.
3. Right and left output lines from valve to the right and left cylinders.

You can either copy the parts I used or select your own. If you select your own you need to calc the fluid capacity of the cylinders to select the right size valve.

Cary is in the process of copying my setup. There might be a stumbling point in that my machinist is to busy to deal with making the adapter required for the valve and column. If that is something you feel you can manage "IF" my guy is a no go, then I recommend doing it. I can use 1 finger to steer and have no leaks.

If you want more info send me your email and I will in the next few days get you more details.

Regards,
Don
 
(quoted from post at 17:11:44 08/10/19)
Hi Deecee,

In general the process requires a new steering valve, column, adapter and hoses. This assumes the pump and cylinders are good.

Putting aside the installation of the valve, the process is...
1. Output line from pump to the valve input.
2. Output line from the valve to the input of the pump.
3. Right and left output lines from valve to the right and left cylinders.

You can either copy the parts I used or select your own. If you select your own you need to calc the fluid capacity of the cylinders to select the right size valve.

Cary is in the process of copying my setup. There might be a stumbling point in that my machinist is to busy to deal with making the adapter required for the valve and column. If that is something you feel you can manage "IF" my guy is a no go, then I recommend doing it. I can use 1 finger to steer and have no leaks.

If you want more info send me your email and I will in the next few days get you more details.

Regards,
Don
Click to expand...

Don,

I plan on making good drawings with all the measurements of the adapter when I finally get it. This may help anyone else who wants to do this conversion.
 
(quoted from post at 17:11:44 08/10/19)
Hi Deecee,

In general the process requires a new steering valve, column, adapter and hoses. This assumes the pump and cylinders are good.

Putting aside the installation of the valve, the process is...
1. Output line from pump to the valve input.
2. Output line from the valve to the input of the pump.
3. Right and left output lines from valve to the right and left cylinders.

You can either copy the parts I used or select your own. If you select your own you need to calc the fluid capacity of the cylinders to select the right size valve.
Perfect! [email protected]
Cary is in the process of copying my setup. There might be a stumbling point in that my machinist is to busy to deal with making the adapter required for the valve and column. If that is something you feel you can manage "IF" my guy is a no go, then I recommend doing it. I can use 1 finger to steer and have no leaks.

If you want more info send me your email and I will in the next few days get you more details.

Regards,
Don
Click to expand...
 
Caryc i really appreciate this. And Don as well. This all seems the perfect route for me. Cleared a big space in the shop yesterday and will be removing the dash today. Plan to, depending on what i find in the column, try the new seal and bypass line route for now, and then the conversion to rockwell as maybe a winter project. Plans for the mount would be like WOW! This is all looking great as i have really fallen for this old tractor LOL.
 
(quoted from post at 07:24:28 08/11/19) Caryc i really appreciate this. And Don as well. This all seems the perfect route for me. Cleared a big space in the shop yesterday and will be removing the dash today. Plan to, depending on what i find in the column, try the new seal and bypass line route for now, and then the conversion to rockwell as maybe a winter project. Plans for the mount would be like WOW! This is all looking great as i have really fallen for this old tractor LOL.
Click to expand...

I have to say that all the credit really goes to Don. He's the one that figured out how to do it then actually did the project. He's been a really patient guy that's willing to help others.
 
(quoted from post at 07:24:28 08/11/19) Caryc i really appreciate this. And Don as well. This all seems the perfect route for me. Cleared a big space in the shop yesterday and will be removing the dash today. Plan to, depending on what i find in the column, try the new seal and bypass line route for now, and then the conversion to rockwell as maybe a winter project. Plans for the mount would be like WOW! This is all looking great as i have really fallen for this old tractor LOL.
Click to expand...

I think many of us have developed a fondness for them. I appreciate the elegance of the design and engineered durability and gets a ton of work done.

From my reading, most have solved the leaking issue with the bypass. It will do little to improve the assistance when steering, but a great 1st step that is inexpensive when compared to other options.

Good luck,
Don
 

Thank's Car,

Born out of the frustration of having something I fixed more than once continue to be a headache. I knew others felt the same way and wanted to try and help as others helped me in so many ways with the 100 plus repairs I made to my 202. This mod makes the 202 so much more user friendly and showed up in later MF models.

The idea of switching the steering valve first came from Inno. I tried to standardize it and sought out the parts to bring it together in a way that anyone with an power steering issue could replicate the it.

Take care,
Don
 
Okay. So who wants to sell me some parts left over from their conversion?? I found my seals to be okay and the valve internals to be surprisingly tight and not worn. This from two tractor mechanics that turned wrenches on work bulls for years and a superb machinist. The shaft looks good with no corrosion or seal cutting. The bad news...i pulled the check valve that goes behind the return line banjo fitting to check it for operation and somewhere, somehow lost it. This is the little tappet valve with a tapering spring. Anyone want to sell me one?? The one gentleman that worked for MF for years thinks i just ran out of fluid, probably from the pitman shaft leak i repaired nd the foam and blow i was getting out of the vent was from air in the system and running at too high rpm when trying to bleed the air out. Hope they re all right. So back together and somehow locate a check valve. I'm still thinking i like the conversion idea though. [email protected]
 
No idea if I have the part as most of my parts went back and forth to the machinist. I will look at my parts box over the weekend.

(quoted from post at 19:47:32 08/13/19) Okay. So who wants to sell me some parts left over from their conversion?? I found my seals to be okay and the valve internals to be surprisingly tight and not worn. This from two tractor mechanics that turned wrenches on work bulls for years and a superb machinist. The shaft looks good with no corrosion or seal cutting. The bad news...i pulled the check valve that goes behind the return line banjo fitting to check it for operation and somewhere, somehow lost it. This is the little tappet valve with a tapering spring. Anyone want to sell me one?? The one gentleman that worked for MF for years thinks i just ran out of fluid, probably from the pitman shaft leak i repaired nd the foam and blow i was getting out of the vent was from air in the system and running at too high rpm when trying to bleed the air out. Hope they re all right. So back together and somehow locate a check valve. I'm still thinking i like the conversion idea though. [email protected]
Click to expand...
 
[email protected][
Thanks. The check valve is just a little tappet looking thing on a slightly tapered spring not much bigger than the spring in a ball point pen. Still can't truly understand how it functions and the old timer mf mechs can't say for sure that they remember it. It goes in behind the banjo fitting on the return port and blocks flow between the port and the top side of the valve assembly thru the little hole there. The conversion is looking better and better! Especially since wenger wants 595.00 for a junkyard pull in unknown condition. Again, thank you for the immeasurable help you and the others have been. Deecee the 202 newbie.
 
(quoted from post at 19:50:11 08/15/19) [email protected][
Thanks. The check valve is just a little tappet looking thing on a slightly tapered spring not much bigger than the spring in a ball point pen. Still can't truly understand how it functions and the old timer mf mechs can't say for sure that they remember it. It goes in behind the banjo fitting on the return port and blocks flow between the port and the top side of the valve assembly thru the little hole there. The conversion is looking better and better! Especially since wenger wants 595.00 for a junkyard pull in unknown condition. Again, thank you for the immeasurable help you and the others have been. Deecee the 202 newbie.
Click to expand...

Wow...595.00 for a part pulled from a 60 year old junked tractor. Remember, it's still a 60 year old part.

I only paid $325.00 for the new spool valve and column for the conversion. I'm still waiting to get my adapter back from the machinist. I'll post more on the process of the conversion once I get it.
 
That's what I recall from when I started looking at my conversion, the used parts were like gold!
I can assure anyone who thinks they want the original power assist to work, you probably don't! I have a 204 forklift which still has working original power steering. I've done some work to seal up the leaks and since it only gets used occasionally it would not be worth the money for me to convert it. It works ok to assist in steering, and it's next to impossible to steer this thing without it.
That said, this conversion makes it more like driving a modern tractor as opposed to a somewhat easier to steer 60+ year old machine. It will pay you back over and over just in time savings and reduce the frustration that often comes with running old equipment.
 
I so very much agree on the results.
(quoted from post at 05:57:34 08/16/19) That's what I recall from when I started looking at my conversion, the used parts were like gold!
I can assure anyone who thinks they want the original power assist to work, you probably don't! I have a 204 forklift which still has working original power steering. I've done some work to seal up the leaks and since it only gets used occasionally it would not be worth the money for me to convert it. It works ok to assist in steering, and it's next to impossible to steer this thing without it.
That said, this conversion makes it more like driving a modern tractor as opposed to a somewhat easier to steer 60+ year old machine. It will pay you back over and over just in time savings and reduce the frustration that often comes with running old equipment.
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 07:11:24 08/11/19)
(quoted from post at 17:11:44 08/10/19)
Hi Deecee,

In general the process requires a new steering valve, column, adapter and hoses. This assumes the pump and cylinders are good.

Putting aside the installation of the valve, the process is...
1. Output line from pump to the valve input.
2. Output line from the valve to the input of the pump.
3. Right and left output lines from valve to the right and left cylinders.

You can either copy the parts I used or select your own. If you select your own you need to calc the fluid capacity of the cylinders to select the right size valve.
Perfect! [email protected]
Cary is in the process of copying my setup. There might be a stumbling point in that my machinist is to busy to deal with making the adapter required for the valve and column. If that is something you feel you can manage "IF" my guy is a no go, then I recommend doing it. I can use 1 finger to steer and have no leaks.

If you want more info send me your email and I will in the next few days get you more details.

Regards,
Don
Click to expand...
/quote]

[email protected]
Click to expand...
 
I have a massey 135 with a steering valve issue. my valve actually has a hole in it and fluid was pouring out of the overflow.

I want to do the same orbit valve upgrade but my power steering does not have any cylinders. The hoses go from the pump to the steering valve at the column and into the steering box.

Am I able to do this with just the hoses into the steering box? If not what is needed? Maybe a steering setup from a 202?
 
(quoted from post at 11:37:17 08/18/19) I have a massey 135 with a steering valve issue. my valve actually has a hole in it and fluid was pouring out of the overflow.

I want to do the same orbit valve upgrade but my power steering does not have any cylinders. The hoses go from the pump to the steering valve at the column and into the steering box.

Am I able to do this with just the hoses into the steering box? If not what is needed? Maybe a steering setup from a 202?
Click to expand...

Hi Mick
If the rack assembly on yours works as designed, I don't see why it would not work as we are talking about directing hydraulic fluid under pressure to the rack. The pressure doesn't change, just how it gets there.
Regards,
Don
 
Per Inno: "I can assure anyone who thinks they want the original power assist to work, you probably don't"
This is a compelling statement.

Another quote I'm remembering a lot since buying this tractor is from the movie, Animal House: "My advice to you is to start drinking heavily."

Hah!

I'm hooked up with Don off the board and have info from him and Cary to proceed with doing the conversion. LIfe is good.
 
(quoted from post at 17:34:13 08/18/19)
I'm hooked up with Don off the board and have info from him and Cary to proceed with doing the conversion. LIfe is good.
Click to expand...

I believe you are in good hands. Don did much research and made sure he did it right. My conversion was perhaps more trial and error.
 
I am doing this conversion with a 135. The 135 does not have any steering cylinders like the 202 but has the same dreaded steering valve problems.

Thanks to BIG1RED9 and Inno, I opted for the orbital valve upgrade. I went with a 125mL valve and will retrofit a standard 2" tie rod cylinder on the driver side drag link and steering arm.


mvphoto41529.jpg


mvphoto41530.jpg


mvphoto41531.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 11:13:54 08/23/19)
Hmmm....seems to be a lot of this going around. Inno...see what you started? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Well it's about time!! Prior to doing mine, there were lots of people who said it wouldn't be worth it etc.....Took a few years, but it finally caught on. :lol:
 
Don walked me right thru the conversion. He and Rockwell Offroad were very helpful.
mvphoto42601.jpg


mvphoto42602.jpg


mvphoto42603.jpg


I'm very grateful to all the people that have been so helpful and willing to share their knowledge and experience.
[/img]
 

I finally got all the parts needed to do my MF202. I just purchased a 4" angle grinder at Harbor Freight today. I figured I might have to do some cutting on the dash.

I'll probably start on it next week some time. Supposed to be very hot over the week end.

So deecee, how easy does your steering work? Did you use the stock pump?

You kind of made me jealous when I saw that ID plate on your dash. Some of us aren't that lucky.
 

Hey Don,

On page 2 of this thread, you showed a picture of the right side of your dash. Can you please post a pic of the right side of it? I'm wondering if I will have to cut so much out of the dash like deecee showed on his pic. It doesn't look like you had to cut that much, mostly on that flange on the bottom of it.

Thanks
Cary
 
(quoted from post at 15:38:38 09/14/19)
Hey Don,

On page 2 of this thread, you showed a picture of the right side of your dash. Can you please post a pic of the right side of it? I'm wondering if I will have to cut so much out of the dash like deecee showed on his pic. It doesn't look like you had to cut that much, mostly on that flange on the bottom of it.

Thanks
Cary
Click to expand...

Don, I meant to say a pic of the left side of your dash.
 
(quoted from post at 15:39:34 09/14/19)
(quoted from post at 15:38:38 09/14/19)
Hey Don,

On page 2 of this thread, you showed a picture of the right side of your dash. Can you please post a pic of the right side of it? I'm wondering if I will have to cut so much out of the dash like deecee showed on his pic. It doesn't look like you had to cut that much, mostly on that flange on the bottom of it.

Thanks
Cary
Click to expand...

Don, I meant to say a pic of the left side of your dash.
Click to expand...

What I did will not show up in a picture. Some pounding out of a curve and flattening of the bent edge.

I think the cut-out looks more "industrial" and clean
 
I found the same fix on another forum while looking for options to stop my leak on a 35. It had a new seal that worked fine for a couple of months. So I got another seal, a speedi sleeve for the steering shaft then drilled and tapped the dome area just below the seal and ran the line to the return line. Been used about 3-4 hours and so far so good. Time will tell if it will hold. But sure is nice to have that power assist compared to my TO30
 
(quoted from post at 18:10:44 09/13/19) Don walked me right thru the conversion. He and Rockwell Offroad were very helpful.
Click to expand...

That looks great! I turned my steering valve about 45 clockwise and was able to get some angled fittings so I could fit it all under the dash without cutting. If I had to do it again, I think I would do the cutting. That makes it much easier to work on if you have to replace a hose etc.
 
Caryc...I've been back in business for a couple of weeks now. The steering is precise, super easy to turn and it's kind of like driving a car now....you don't really think about it, you just drive. I had the benefit of much of this tractor already being restored. The pump, cylinders and hoses from the right/left tees had already been replaced. I spent about 200 for new hoses from the steering unit out to the tees and new supply and return lines from the pump. I only want to do this once. I adjusted the lash on the steering box when I had the drag links disconnected to remove the old shaft and there is zero play there now. I have new seals on the pitman shafts and opted to go back with 85/115 gear lube in the gear box as it will be less likely to leak and only the sector gears are getting lubricated now. I did my dash cutting with dremel reinforced cutoff wheels and you'll note I moved the ignition switch and light switch. Hope your conversion makes you smile like mine does.
 
(quoted from post at 15:34:13 08/18/19) Per Inno: "I can assure anyone who thinks they want the original power assist to work, you probably don't"
This is a compelling statement.

Another quote I'm remembering a lot since buying this tractor is from the movie, Animal House: "My advice to you is to start drinking heavily."

Hah!

I'm hooked up with Don off the board and have info from him and Cary to proceed with doing the conversion. LIfe is good.
Click to expand...

Hey deecee, I can't find any other way to contact you but this.

I purchased steering wheel OLS047 from Steiner. It says it's an 11/16" 36 spline shaft but it's too small and won't fit the column I got from Offroad.

From the pictures of your steering wheel, it looks like the OLS110 in Steiner's catalog. Did you get that wheel from Steiner? If not, where did you get it and did it go on easily like one would expect?

Thanks
Cary
 
(quoted from post at 16:43:57 09/17/19) Caryc...I've been back in business for a couple of weeks now. The steering is precise, super easy to turn and it's kind of like driving a car now....you don't really think about it, you just drive. I had the benefit of much of this tractor already being restored. The pump, cylinders and hoses from the right/left tees had already been replaced. I spent about 200 for new hoses from the steering unit out to the tees and new supply and return lines from the pump. I only want to do this once. I adjusted the lash on the steering box when I had the drag links disconnected to remove the old shaft and there is zero play there now. I have new seals on the pitman shafts and opted to go back with 85/115 gear lube in the gear box as it will be less likely to leak and only the sector gears are getting lubricated now. I did my dash cutting with dremel reinforced cutoff wheels and you'll note I moved the ignition switch and light switch. Hope your conversion makes you smile like mine does.
Click to expand...

deecee, I purchased steering wheel OLS047 from Steiner. It says it's for an 11/16" 36 splined shaft but it's too small and won't fit the column I got from rockwell offroad.

From your pictures, it looks like you purchased OLS110 from Steiner. How did your wheel fit? Did it go on like one would expect? If you didn't get that wheel from Steiner, where did you get it?

Thanks
Cary
 
(quoted from post at 16:43:57 09/17/19) Caryc...I've been back in business for a couple of weeks now. The steering is precise, super easy to turn and it's kind of like driving a car now....you don't really think about it, you just drive. I had the benefit of much of this tractor already being restored. The pump, cylinders and hoses from the right/left tees had already been replaced. I spent about 200 for new hoses from the steering unit out to the tees and new supply and return lines from the pump. I only want to do this once. I adjusted the lash on the steering box when I had the drag links disconnected to remove the old shaft and there is zero play there now. I have new seals on the pitman shafts and opted to go back with 85/115 gear lube in the gear box as it will be less likely to leak and only the sector gears are getting lubricated now. I did my dash cutting with dremel reinforced cutoff wheels and you'll note I moved the ignition switch and light switch. Hope your conversion makes you smile like mine does.
Click to expand...

Deecee, this is the only way I can contact you. I purchased steering wheel OLS047 from Steiner. It says it s for an 11/16" 36 spline shaft but it just to small and won t fit the column I got from Rockwell offroad.

From your pictures it looks like you purchased OLS110 steering wheel from Steiner. How did this wheel fit? Did it go on like one would expect? If you didn t purchase it from Steiner, who did you purchase it from?

Thanks
Cary
 
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