2020 nightmare

[Harry in Ky]

So I'm back with more questions. This time the problem child is a 2020 tractor. On going issues since it spun a rod rod bearing back in January. I'm not exactly sure how I got myself into this project, but here I am. Due to weather and personal health problems I didn't actually get involved until sometime in April. I was hoping it was a simple sleeve/piston related problem I could deal with. Turns out it was a rod bearing. That complicates things a little. Now I have to involve the local guy who rebuilds engines and go that route. He's having some health problems as well, so things get dragged out even more.

He finally gets into it, orders parts for a 202 (assuming that's what it is) only to find it's actually a 219 so the parts shuffle takes place. He finally gets it all together, I get it back to the farm and eventually back in the tractor far enough to get it running. Except it won't run. It has the old CDC pump which I at first feared might be the problem. I confirmed today that it is indeed pumping fuel so that doesn't appear to be the issue. The exhaust is still open so I can see what each cylinder is putting out. A little grey smoke on each stroke but no hint of any cylinder trying to fire. I even tried just a HINT of ether but that didn't help. It hit once or twice, puffed a couple dark gray clomps of smoke and fought back like it didn't want to turn. Made me think of too far advanced timing. The closest book I have is for a 1020 with that style pump and it shows the timing procedure with a timing pin in the flywheel at TDC and a timing pin in the pump itself. The process of inserting the pin into the flywheel then rotating the pump itself until the pin drops in.

I have to assume the same procedure applies to the 219 engine since the same pins are on this motor. Can anyone confirm or disprove that theory? I've got a call in to the rebuilder to ask about his procedure for timing the pump but haven't heard back yet.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Was the fuel pump off? At least the 4202 I’ve worked on is more similar to this picture there is a window matched to flywheel tdc

I’m unaware of Deere using any timing pins on old stuff. 9200 with overhead cam yes but the old pin the pump like caterpillar I’ve yet to see.

If the pump was removed is it possible she’s 180 degrees off? The shaft will come out of the pump side as well that’s something I didn’t know till I had pulled at least a dozen of them and can make the timing mark off of what you had it when pulled just rotate flywheel around 360 and try it there.

 

[Jim.ME]

The info for the 219 engine is the same as 202 engine. The only timing pin is the one at the flywheel. The injection pump uses the marks in the window on the side as the pictures in Fixingfarmer's post.

 

[Harry in Ky]

The CDC pump has no windows. It has a timing pin.

 

[Jim.ME]

When I get a chance I will look some more to see if I can find anything on that pump on a 219

 

[MSD]

Just went through the same procedure on my 2030. Spun rod bearing. Turned the crank and got it back together. Lots of timing marks to line up if the crank has been out. Might be one of them. I assume the pump is primed and lines have been bled.

 

[Jim.ME]

The CDC pump has no windows. It has a timing pin.

It looks like the 219 power units used the CDC and the 202 diesels. I have found the info for removal in the 2020 wheel tractor service manual. I have to tear the manual apart to scan the pages so it will be a while, before I can do it. Send me your email in a direct message if you want a pdf copy emailed to you.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Okay, thanks.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Today's installment. As expected the timing procedure for the 2020 is indeed pretty much the same as for the 1020 with this style pump. What I did today. First I removed the valve cover and observed what's happening in there. I removed one injector line at the injector. I took an old injector that came out of the 1020 I'm working on, screwed it onto the now vacant line fitting and spun it over a few times. It seemed to work that injecter just fine. Exhaust valve opens, closes, a second later the intake valve opens and closes, a second later the injector fires off. A few rotations of that and the time spacing between actions looks about right. To me that indicates BASIC internal timing is probably correct.

I went through the timing pin steps. Got the pin into the flywheel, then reversed and installed the pin in the pump. which dropped right in. Removed both pins, bumped the starter a bit and inserted the pin back into the pump. This time it didn't go all the way down. My assumption from that is that this portion of timing is also correct.

Frustration sets in again so I quit for the day. Time to get out of the heat, sit down and think about this some more. Could it be a compression issue? The new head gasket might be too think and reducing compression? I don't have a compression tester so I'm in no position to determine that. Could it be an injector issue? All four new (replacement) injectors somehow don't actually pop off at the pressure this pump is producing? I don't know yet. Maybe when I finally get in touch with the rebuilder some more facts might come to light. I guess I could pull a couple of them out, turn them around like I did the one today and see what that shows me. That might well be my next play.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Time marches on, but the dreaded 2020 boat anchor still goes nowhere. Another hot afternoon spent today on the next part of the plan. So I got the original injectors back from the builder yesterday, took #3 and $4 lines loose and injectors out. Turned them around and tested them. Turns out they do indeed pop off as expected. The unexpected is that the injectors popping and actual compression don't happen at the same time. I know I went through the "timing check" procedure once and "assumed" I did it correctly and that it appeared to be "right". Today's events proved me wrong. This time with the injectors out as well as the valve cover off I could more accurately determine piston position as well as valve action to better pinpoint how/where all this comes together.

Here's the fun part. I determine that as the flywheel rotates and #1 and #4 pistons approach TDC there is a section (maybe and inch or so) of blank space on the flywheel where no metal at all is present. The ring gear of course is solid all the way around, but for some reason the flywheel is not. This was a total surprise and I still don't understand why that would be the case. I only found this out by accident as I was working the engine around trying to install the timing pin again. I noticed when the pin went in the flywheel wouldn't back up, but would still go forward for a ways. Shining a light into the little window opening the vacant space became visible. The long philips screwdriver in the vacant #1 injector hole indicated the piston is not at TDC at this point. But this the point where the pin in injection pump fits into place. With pins removed I continued working the flywheel, watching the screwdriver until it seemed to stop coming up. Then shining the light into the window and playing with the ring gear teeth I was able to find what I assumed is the RIGHT hole for the pin to fit into. With the pin in place this time, the valves on #1 were loose, those on #4 where tight, and the screwdriver seemed to be at its highest point. Problem is the pump is nowhere near where it needs to be for its pin to fit. Loosening and rotating the pump as far as the slots will allow isn't enough. So I decide to pull the pump to see if I can still get this to work out. With the pump out I mark one gear bolt hole and a spot on the pump that matches. Turn the pump until the pin fits in and the bolt hole has moved to next hole. Looks good until I realize the three bolts are not evenly spaced. With the pump back in place, both pins installed, only two of the three bolts can be installed. That means the gear has to be moved so the front cover needs to come off, so the whole front end support/fuel tank package comes back off as well. What a lovely day.

Which brings me to the question. Is this strange "blank spot" on the back side of the flywheel something these engines would commonly have? I took the engine to the builder with the flywheel in place, got it back that way and never saw the flywheel from the back side.

The only plus in all this is that now I think I know why it wouldn't run.

 

[ET]

There are holes made in the flywheel to balance it.

 

[Jim.ME]

Time marches on, but the dreaded 2020 boat anchor still goes nowhere. Another hot afternoon spent today on the next part of the plan. So I got the original injectors back from the builder yesterday, took #3 and $4 lines loose and injectors out. Turned them around and tested them. Turns out they do indeed pop off as expected. The unexpected is that the injectors popping and actual compression don't happen at the same time. I know I went through the "timing check" procedure once and "assumed" I did it correctly and that it appeared to be "right". Today's events proved me wrong. This time with the injectors out as well as the valve cover off I could more accurately determine piston position as well as valve action to better pinpoint how/where all this comes together.

Here's the fun part. I determine that as the flywheel rotates and #1 and #4 pistons approach TDC there is a section (maybe and inch or so) of blank space on the flywheel where no metal at all is present. The ring gear of course is solid all the way around, but for some reason the flywheel is not. This was a total surprise and I still don't understand why that would be the case. I only found this out by accident as I was working the engine around trying to install the timing pin again. I noticed when the pin went in the flywheel wouldn't back up, but would still go forward for a ways. Shining a light into the little window opening the vacant space became visible. The long philips screwdriver in the vacant #1 injector hole indicated the piston is not at TDC at this point. But this the point where the pin in injection pump fits into place. With pins removed I continued working the flywheel, watching the screwdriver until it seemed to stop coming up. Then shining the light into the window and playing with the ring gear teeth I was able to find what I assumed is the RIGHT hole for the pin to fit into. With the pin in place this time, the valves on #1 were loose, those on #4 where tight, and the screwdriver seemed to be at its highest point. Problem is the pump is nowhere near where it needs to be for its pin to fit. Loosening and rotating the pump as far as the slots will allow isn't enough. So I decide to pull the pump to see if I can still get this to work out. With the pump out I mark one gear bolt hole and a spot on the pump that matches. Turn the pump until the pin fits in and the bolt hole has moved to next hole. Looks good until I realize the three bolts are not evenly spaced. With the pump back in place, both pins installed, only two of the three bolts can be installed. That means the gear has be moved so the front cover needs to come off, so the whole front end support/fuel tank package comes back off as well. What a lovely day.

Which brings me to the question. Is this strange "blank spot" on the back side of the flywheel something these engines would commonly have? I took the engine to the builder with the flywheel in place, got it back that way and never saw the flywheel from the back side.

The only plus in all this is that now I think I know why it wouldn't run.

There are several places it feels like the pin is in, but only the one correct hole. There are several "blank" spots as you call them where the pin seems to go in but the flywheel can move one way or the other. That is why I like to check valve position if in doubt.