2N electronic ignition conversion hard start

[Jack in Colo]

recently bought a petronix electronic ignition conversion for my 2N ford, after installing the kit the tractor will crank normally but does not seem to fire the plugs until letting off the the starter then it will try to start. pulled the everything apart and all seems to be installed according the the instructions. Tried to pull start it and it will fire up and run great on the first turn of the engine when not using the starter. Got me stumped, anyone have any ideas?

 

[Jim in Western MI]

Sounds like a wire is out of place. These EI's work best on 12 volt, negative ground; if you're doing it another way you're swimming upstream. I would check the connections to the starter and the coil, sounds like you're grounding the coil wire with the starter engaged.

 

[Jim in Western MI]

Further thought..., note that the starter is engaged when you ground the solenoid when you push the button next to the shifter (at least in the tradtional circuit, some folks have perhaps unwisely changed that when/if the button malfunctioned). So if you connected the coil to that wire on the solenoid, the one that goes to the starting button, then that's why it's not working. Probably better to connect to the switch and leave the starting circuit completely out of the EI/coil circuit.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:53:35 05/30/13) recently bought a petronix electronic ignition conversion for my 2N ford, after installing the kit the tractor will crank normally but does not seem to fire the plugs until letting off the the starter then it will try to start. pulled the everything apart and all seems to be installed according the the instructions. Tried to pull start it and it will fire up and run great on the first turn of the engine when not using the starter. Got me stumped, anyone have any ideas?

ay simply be too low a voltage when starter is engaged. Battery, cables, ground, etc.

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jack........despite the promise of miracles of instant starts, the Pertronix is LOW VOLTAGE sensitive. When you engage yer 6-volt starter motor, yer WEAK 6-volt battery drops BELOW the solid state threshold of about 5.5 volts. And guess what??? NO STARTS. Ittza solid state transistor thingy. You doubt??? Connect an old fashioned analog voltmeter (you know the kind with a needle) across the battery terminals and watch what happens to the battery volts when you engage yer starter motor. ...or... take yer weaksister 6-volt battery in for a "load test" at yer corner autoparts/battery store.

We seldom have problems with the Pertronix on 12-volts. (it still has the same low volt threshold of 5.5 volts) and surprizingly enuff, yer 2N will start quite willing on 12-volts. Ittza NOT a positive (+) ground ...or... negative (-) ground thing. Ittza solid state transistor thingy.

I am NOT anti-transistor ignition; I scratch built one in 1963 for my 1956 Dodge Hemi V-8; and I have a CD ignition on my 7000-rpm 165-hp BMW 2002.

You do know ittz 2-bolt, 15-min job to remove the weird 4-nipple dizzy and change the points (0.015") on the kitchen table??? Just un-snapple yer capple and letter dangle. Installation is a reversal of the removal ...except... finger start the 2-bolt and then install the rotor. Now rotate the rotor until the OFFSET rotor tang fits the OFFSET camshaft slot. Now tighten the 2-bolts and re-snapple yer capple. Simple, eh?

Remember to polish the invisible corrosion from between the points (0.015") after installation. Me? I use a clean $1-bill clamped between the points (0.015") and pull. Iff'n yer really cheap, tear a strip from HEAVY brown paper grocery sack and use that.

Even at $30 fer set of frontmount points; you could replace the points EVERY YEAR for 5-yrs before you've paid for yer problematical Pertronix electronic ignition. ........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister and retired electronic engineer

 

[souNdguy]

2n don't have solenoids.. from the factory anyway..

 

[Jim in Western MI]

10-4, and thanks. So as much as these machines are alike, it can get you into an error when you answer a 2N question with an 8N answer!

 

[souNdguy]

i bet there's alot of 2n WITH solenids. just they didn't leave the factory that way.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Your problem is not the EI.
You've got something else going on.
Once you get it right you will likely NEVER have to touch your distributer again. And despite what Dell says and all the mumbo jumbo about building one from scratch, he is the worst EI hating guy here and will try to talk you out of using it every chance he gets.
Keep at it. There is a reason points are no longer found in ANY gas engine made today.
Actually several reasons. But the main reason is that it's better.

 

[36 Coupe]

The magic ignition dose not work well when the voltage drops to 5 volts when cranking.The fact that it fires when the starter stops cranking or it pull starts ok.I suspect the Hall effect transistor does not conduct at lower voltages.When that happens the SCR does not gate on so no current flows in the coils primary.The spark does not happen then.Ultradog has no electronics knowledge so he pokes fun at those who do.To sum up you have an ignition module that does not work well on 6 volt systems.

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jerry........wanna know why all my other vehicles don't have electronic ignition??? They're DIESEL!!!

And iff'n the bean counters had their way, modern cars would still have points and condensers and carburetors.

So gitt off'n my butt about electronic ignition. My advice is still solid and correct. Pertronix is a good product for 12V-tractors ...but... their solid state transistor has low voltage problems and WEAK 6-volt batterys being dragged down by starter motor load exacerbates the problem. That is WHY you can pull-start with Pertronix just fine. ........respectfully, Dell, retired electronics engineer

 

[Ultradog MN]

I'll give you that on the diesel Dell. No bloody ignition system required.
My tractor has two wires on it = the positive and negative battery cables. Start it by jumping across the solenoid with a linch pin. Throw a charger on it once a month.
EI will work on lower voltage than you suggest though. When I put it in my 3000 7 years ago I did not know that those tractors had a resistance wire to the coil - 3 folds of wire taped together. Don't know what the final voltage was but assume it was less than the normal 12V.
It ran better than before and got rid of a nagging occasional miss. I assume a 6V ei kit will work on comparable lower voltage.
My beef with you EI naysayers (and yes Dell I think you are one of the worst offenders)is you all seem to love keeping a crisp dollar bill in your shirt pocket and wiping the invisible corrosion off the points on a regular basis. Or fiddling with the gap when the spark gets yellow. Not hard to do of course, especially on a side mount, but on a front mount or on a 3 cyl it's a pia. There's none of that with EI. Zero!
As to the money EI costs well, I don't make those decisions for other people. When I see folks spending $4K restoring an N I don't think spending another C note for the obvious benefits of EI is out of line.
Heck, folks spend $40, $60, $80 bucks a month for cable or satellite TV.
Get rid of your idiot box and you'll have plenty of dough for EI.
Jerry
(who doesn't own a TV and hasn't for most of my adult life)

PS.
The bean counters are trying to give consumers the best value at the lowest possible price and thus maximize their profits. EI is one way to acheive that end.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:53:35 05/30/13) recently bought a petronix electronic ignition conversion for my 2N ford, after installing the kit the tractor will crank normally but does not seem to fire the plugs until letting off the the starter then it will try to start. pulled the everything apart and all seems to be installed according the the instructions. Tried to pull start it and it will fire up and run great on the first turn of the engine when not using the starter. Got me stumped, anyone have any ideas?

ow far are you from Co Sprgs, Joe?

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jerry.........NO, the bean counters are NOT trying to give the consumers maximum value for dollar. Ittza EPA mandated anti-smog response for electronic ignition and fuel injection. EPA putta LIFE-TIME requirement. Do it OUR WAY or yer outta business. ........respectfully, Dell who is still NOT anti-electronic ignition

 

[Royse]

Jerry, you forgot my favorite! The grapes of wrath.
Jack, if you told us I missed it. Is this a 12V or 6V system?
That answer and a couple others could help us figure out what's going on.
Do you have a solenoid or are you using the original mechanical switch?
Do you have a diagram of how it's wired currently?

 

[36 Coupe]

Its well known that solid state ignitions do not work well on 6 volt systems.

 

[untakenname]

Whether an N, or lawnmower, motorcycle,etc. the fact that it fires on the last few spins AFTER you let off the starter button says a lack of battery power. Points ignition will even do this at a certain point of low voltage. It's taking so much to run the starter, that there's not enough left for the ignition. That's about as simply as it can be put without getting all technical.