300 sleeves

[Roger Tomfohrde]

So I purchased sleeves and pistons from the Tractor Parts ASAP and they came last week. I did not get around to working on the project and am now wondering about installing them. They do not really start so I
used inside-outside calipers first and then moved to micrometers and bore gauge set to confirm what I am finding. The sleeves measure 3.750+ .001 when measured in different spots, pretty much as there are
spec'd. For the block bore I used a bore tool in thousands and then measured over it with my micrometer, to rule out calibration issues with both of them and come up with the bore of the block is 3.745-6 in
different spots. This then is at least .004 difference which seems a little tight. My big question is will the sleeves shrink far enough with putting them in a container with dry ice? From what I have read dry
ice will only shrink .002 to.0025, Is this true? If it was liquid nitrogen I could get possibly .003 or a little better but that I have trouble sourcing. So if the dry ice is not enough do I get the tool
necessary to open the bore up? The ones I have done in the past never seemed this tight or is it the new manufactures. Just don't want to break sleeves. Thanks for any advice here.
P.S. This is why I wanted to avoid pulling all the sleeves.

 

[D Slater]

.004 to tight for thin wall sleeves. Options are to enlarge bore or get other sleeves. Enlarging bore would mean trouble if replaced later. Also don't know if ID of sleeve bore would be correct if OD was made off. Block bore ID is in range. Does the block have a letter stamped in near bores like A, B, C, D?

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

I'll have to look tomorrow for letters. I do remember checking them all and seem to be .001 within each other.

 

[Dennis P]

I guess it depends how much you plan to use the tractor. If it was me, I would hone out the cylinders to the size I wanted and press in sleeves. Is this a dry sleeve engine by the way?

 

[rustred]

where are these new sleeves made? china? .004 is a lot. i would not be enlarging the block bore .

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

The sleeves are Reliance brand. The old sleeves measured the same as the new ones with in a thousand. The old sleeves pulled really, really hard so I am beginning to think it is the block. Thought it might have been rust but I shined one up with the glaze breaker and it was still what I think to be under sized but I am wondering how they got those sleeves in with out damaging them. I am at my paying job so when I get home I will go back over it again and look for markings like Slater said to look for.

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

Yes dry sleeve

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

Doubt it will ever need to be redone again while in my possession. My 560 has maybe 10 hours on it since I did that one in 17.

 

[Rodney51Cub]

I resleeved my 43 H in 19. I put the new sleeves in the freezer over night and took them out one at a time to put in the tractor. You might try doing that to one cylinder to see if it helps.

 

[pete 23]

It is difficult to get an accurate outside measurement of a free standing thin sleeve. If you could get a sleeve to start in the block just an inch or so and then measure you will get a more accurate measurement .

I used to install a lot of .002 oversize sleeves in the D 282 engines and some engines would require quite a bit of honing with a rigid hone and others just a light clean up. They call it tollerances as no two engines are exactly the same. Close yes, but not exact.

Sleeve fit was always a problem and it became much worse with after market parts. But, I remember one engine where one sleeve was broke in shipment and the replacement sleeve, (from IH) fit much different than the rest. Some times the flange would not even fit into the counter bore. Good idea to check that fit also.

 

[DR. EVIL]

PETE - I have a question for you. Where were replacement sleeve and piston kits made by IHC? I bought a new old stock IH FireCrater sleeve and piston set about 2 years ago. Would Melrose Park diesel engine plant have made them for gasoline engines? I haven't been able to find any date on anything in the box.

I know they might have done work like that at FARMALL back in the 1960's, in the Motor Building on the far East end of the plant. But nothing like that was still done there when I worked at FARMALL from 1976 to 1981.

I didn't want the risk of using imported parts, I had a real bad experience at my work on parts made in China, the parts were properly machined, properly Teflon coated, but THREE production runs in a row from different material ALL had out of spec material, a few percent of metals not supposed to be in this alloy were in each heat machined, a different metal each time. Poor metalurgical control! The same poor attitude brought the US dog food that killed our pet dogs, and baby formula that made infants sick. Then they sent us the nnalert.

 

[teddy52food]

Mike the sleeve in 3 places around the top, middle & bottom. Then add them up and devide by 9.

 

[the tractor vet]

You will find that you will have to do alittel hone to fit with a ridgid hone and work with a .oo2-3 press fit and like Pete said ya need to check counter bore . I mic all my sleeves first and mark them with the size of the outer dia. and the thickness of the counter bore flange then i go checking a CLEAN block and mark my findings on the block at that hole . Then i size that hole to the closest fitting sleeve and if the counter bore needs either a dusting or shimming then that is what it gets . Then the sleeve is pressed into that hole with and old school whip down of kerosene as a light lube . Then once ya have them all in then check to see if you have wrinkled any of them when mic the pistons and the bores a once again a light hone to fit as here again not all pistons are the same . Yes i am a weeeee bit OCD .

 

[Fritz Maurer]

And that will tell you what?

 

[teddy52food]

It will tell you the true OD of the sleeve. What else?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Oh. I thought we already knew that.

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

Dslater; Block marked A by all the bores. I need to find a standard to calibrate my micrometer to double check the sizes, it still comes up too much when checked as a difference. This is more or less a hobby to keep me sane from work. I wish I had the measuring resources of the Federal Mogul plant in Lake city where I made sleeves and pistons for 9 years, would be real easy to check then. Did not concentrate on the flanges but will look closer- the book only touched on the dimensions. The ten year goal is to get a acreage/hobby farm so the tractors would get used more.

 

[D Slater]

A was for machine work that had the smallest diameter bore. Many moons ago I would get a sealed power set that needed a ridged hone on bore to use. used my second set of reliance sleeves a while back. Fit bore okay but I was lucky when measuring ID to notice near top of flange didn't look right on two. Flange had separated from sleeve. Looked like someone made a perfect counterbore filler. Ended up pulling the other two sleeves up to inspect. Looked okay and still running. Was disappointed in myself because never had a problem installing sleeves before. Sleeves fit tighter than other brands I used but bore ID ended up okay. Maybe I pulled to hard when flange was bottomed or sleeves were weak. Can't say for sure so I eat the cost of two sleeves.

 

[Tramway Guy]

Just remember that the larger the part; the more it will shrink by cooling.

Something 3.75 in diameter should shrink a little more than .005 going from 32 degrees above zero to -109 degrees which is dry ice temperature.

If you warm the block up to 100 degrees above zero, you will gain a little more.

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

Might work