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The 12v units seem to be more robust than the 6v units.
Do watch out about coil type.. the regualr duty units can still be burned out by improper coil / primary current issues.
Also.. watch out about polarity. Hooking up your bat backwards witht he key on will smoke the innard of the EI faster than you can react and pull the cable back off.
Also.. for the price of the ei.. you can generally buy about 30 sets of points... points last me for years at a time... figuring as low as 3ys per set of points ( mine all last longer than 3ys ).. it would take me? what? 100 ys to notice a monetary savings from an EI unit.
Takes about 5 minutes to check point cap or regap/clean the points during my yearly maintenance... and if I hook the battery up backwards.. or a friend jumps the tractor off wrong.. nothing burns up..
But yeah.. the EI.. are essentiall 'hands-free' once installed, unless the user goofs up electrically ..
Soundguy
Do watch out about coil type.. the regualr duty units can still be burned out by improper coil / primary current issues.
Also.. watch out about polarity. Hooking up your bat backwards witht he key on will smoke the innard of the EI faster than you can react and pull the cable back off.
Also.. for the price of the ei.. you can generally buy about 30 sets of points... points last me for years at a time... figuring as low as 3ys per set of points ( mine all last longer than 3ys ).. it would take me? what? 100 ys to notice a monetary savings from an EI unit.
Takes about 5 minutes to check point cap or regap/clean the points during my yearly maintenance... and if I hook the battery up backwards.. or a friend jumps the tractor off wrong.. nothing burns up..
But yeah.. the EI.. are essentiall 'hands-free' once installed, unless the user goofs up electrically ..
Soundguy
You must be under estimating the cost of points & condenser and over estimating the cost of the EI.
From this site condenser is $1.83, points are $3.89. That's $5.72. Figure shipping etc at $5 (it's more by the way. So's cost to drive 10 miles to get them.) These are about 99% certainly to be made in China.
The Pertronix is $89.60 from this site. Some shopping can get that figure down to $75 or less.
So, you can certainly get points cheaper. But quality points & condenser like ones from Accel, Mallory are $35 a set. Motorcraft points (no condenser) are $14.95. Prices from Summitracing.com. Your bias may be showing thru. The savings in fuel, plug life are a bonus. The reduced aggravation of having starting troubles are also gone.
A fair comparison would be the highest quality points & condenser price to EI. That is 2 sets to equal the cost of the Pertronix system. Even if using the lower priced Motorcraft it's 3-4 sets to equal the cost of the EI. Other benefits and the time to install the 2-3 sets excluded.
jb
From this site condenser is $1.83, points are $3.89. That's $5.72. Figure shipping etc at $5 (it's more by the way. So's cost to drive 10 miles to get them.) These are about 99% certainly to be made in China.
The Pertronix is $89.60 from this site. Some shopping can get that figure down to $75 or less.
So, you can certainly get points cheaper. But quality points & condenser like ones from Accel, Mallory are $35 a set. Motorcraft points (no condenser) are $14.95. Prices from Summitracing.com. Your bias may be showing thru. The savings in fuel, plug life are a bonus. The reduced aggravation of having starting troubles are also gone.
A fair comparison would be the highest quality points & condenser price to EI. That is 2 sets to equal the cost of the Pertronix system. Even if using the lower priced Motorcraft it's 3-4 sets to equal the cost of the EI. Other benefits and the time to install the 2-3 sets excluded.
jb
No bias.. and i don't wast money by buying 5$ of online parts and paying 5$ shipping.
I also don't wast gas on 10mile trips to go pick up a single part.
I usually buy my points at napa or carquest, or TSC. The TSC are undoubtedly TISCO. I don't recall paying over 5$ fro a set of points. I only change the capacitor when needed... they are not really a wear item... While I get 3+ years out of points.. I almost universally get much longer life from caps. While the average ditch digger can't check a capacitor, or may not know what to look for as evidence of a failing cap... Fortunately.. I'm not the average ditch digger.. i can't see paying 35$ for a set of points when a 3$-5$ set will get me years of use.
In my defense.. I had been using a 150$ value on the EI.. Last time I checked they were that much.. though i freely admit that I do not shop for them so have not followed their prices.
lets use your numbers lets say 83$ as a middle of your range price, and call that 'shipped'.
5$ for my set of points and I picke dthem up on the way to the store to get my oil for my yearly service.. so no extra fuel cost.
I can buy over 16 sets of points for that price.
I'm getting NO less than 3ys per set.. in many cases 5, and in some cases 7ys on a set... I'll be kind and use the conservative 3yr range. That puts me at about 50ys as a break even point, and 53 ys before the ei was cheaper. Factor in a capacitor cahnge every 7ys and you can drop 6ys off my number range.. thus 44-47ys.. which I'll gladly take
50-53 ys is alotta time on that piece of waferboard with 6$ of components on it to hold up.. especially since about 10 different fault situations can smoke it in about 600-800 nanoseconds.
Like I said.. I'll stick to points. Out in a dark field, a fingernail file, or dollar bill or match box cover may just get the tractor back to the barn if the points corode or burn... the ei-tractor will need to be towed in...
No bias.. I'm just practical... Electronics last a long time.. but they do fail.. and when they fail.. it's usually all or nothing... besides.. the sheer amount of ignition questions that come across the board greatly show the average users competence when it comes to electricity. The amount of smoked alternators we see due to incorrect polarity hookups is also astounding. With this in mind.. I don't put a long lifespan on an EI.. not so much due to design.. but due to 'help' by the user..
Now.. you want to throw the ball back into a more cost saving court... build an ei on the chap from basic components... either complete breakerless.. or breaker styleusing the points in a low current switching situation. Both are basic, and cheap.. and work good.. if you can solder.. you are set, as the components don't cost much more than a couple sets of points, thus throwing the curve way back in the electronics favor... just not the conventional ei that we were talking about.
soundguy
I also don't wast gas on 10mile trips to go pick up a single part.
I usually buy my points at napa or carquest, or TSC. The TSC are undoubtedly TISCO. I don't recall paying over 5$ fro a set of points. I only change the capacitor when needed... they are not really a wear item... While I get 3+ years out of points.. I almost universally get much longer life from caps. While the average ditch digger can't check a capacitor, or may not know what to look for as evidence of a failing cap... Fortunately.. I'm not the average ditch digger.. i can't see paying 35$ for a set of points when a 3$-5$ set will get me years of use.
In my defense.. I had been using a 150$ value on the EI.. Last time I checked they were that much.. though i freely admit that I do not shop for them so have not followed their prices.
lets use your numbers lets say 83$ as a middle of your range price, and call that 'shipped'.
5$ for my set of points and I picke dthem up on the way to the store to get my oil for my yearly service.. so no extra fuel cost.
I can buy over 16 sets of points for that price.
I'm getting NO less than 3ys per set.. in many cases 5, and in some cases 7ys on a set... I'll be kind and use the conservative 3yr range. That puts me at about 50ys as a break even point, and 53 ys before the ei was cheaper. Factor in a capacitor cahnge every 7ys and you can drop 6ys off my number range.. thus 44-47ys.. which I'll gladly take
50-53 ys is alotta time on that piece of waferboard with 6$ of components on it to hold up.. especially since about 10 different fault situations can smoke it in about 600-800 nanoseconds.
Like I said.. I'll stick to points. Out in a dark field, a fingernail file, or dollar bill or match box cover may just get the tractor back to the barn if the points corode or burn... the ei-tractor will need to be towed in...
No bias.. I'm just practical... Electronics last a long time.. but they do fail.. and when they fail.. it's usually all or nothing... besides.. the sheer amount of ignition questions that come across the board greatly show the average users competence when it comes to electricity. The amount of smoked alternators we see due to incorrect polarity hookups is also astounding. With this in mind.. I don't put a long lifespan on an EI.. not so much due to design.. but due to 'help' by the user..
Now.. you want to throw the ball back into a more cost saving court... build an ei on the chap from basic components... either complete breakerless.. or breaker styleusing the points in a low current switching situation. Both are basic, and cheap.. and work good.. if you can solder.. you are set, as the components don't cost much more than a couple sets of points, thus throwing the curve way back in the electronics favor... just not the conventional ei that we were talking about.
soundguy
bustedknuckles
Member
Soundguy I have to agree with you. I get about six yrs out of my points (125hrs per/yr). At 0 degrees my 5000 starts on the first crank. I think anything that works mechanicaly will out perform electronics (my opinion). My 64 Impala had a HEI distributer in it when I bought it. I pulled it and put a duel point in it; big difference. I know when I shop I try to buy made in the USA and the last set of points I bought was from TSC and they were made here. I think it all depends on how the owner feels. I do not mind maintaining my tractor; some people on the other hand do not. If they are not experienced mechanics then HEI might be worth the price.
Yep.. periodic maintenance is how you get to know your machine.. having to look under the hood now and then means you probably check the fluids more often.. inspect the belts.. look for leaks.. etc.
A fellow with a hands-off ignition will likely have a hands off approach to maintenance.
i think I'd much rather buy a good starting points tractor , knowing that it had some bit of hand holding, and thus maintenance, than the hei that may run 10ys without looking.. menaing.. oil might not get check but yearly.. or even worse. I've know people that NEVER change their tractor oil.. I had a friend with horses and he wanted me to come over an mow his pasture... i loaded up my tractor and went over, and asked him why he had a pasture with no tractor.. he said he had a tractor but it was broke... after mowing i wanted to look at it.. was a small ford 1210 or 1220.. had 1 rear flat, and a hole the size of a nickle knocked in the diffy with a piece of duct tape over it... he had backed up to something in his barn FAST and knocked the hole in it and parked it right there.
We jacked it up, and drained the diffy, pulled the broke piece out of the diffy, cleaned with brake cleaner and epoxied the hole up.. re-filled the diffy.. no leaks.. filled the tire.. it didn't even have a hole... I check the oil.. it was like molasis.. I asked him when he changed it last.. he said he bought the tractor in 84 ( it was now 2002!! ).. changed the oil... charged the battery.. and the poor thing fired right up... he used it for another couple years untill he sold the place, and sold the tractor too... go figure. ( Had to sharpen the blades on his 4' hog too... he hadn't sharpened them since he got it in 84 either.... changed the gearbox oil as well... ).. That's the kind of guy that will love an electronic ignition... IE.. run the machine till something other than the ignition fails before they check it out!
soundguy
A fellow with a hands-off ignition will likely have a hands off approach to maintenance.
i think I'd much rather buy a good starting points tractor , knowing that it had some bit of hand holding, and thus maintenance, than the hei that may run 10ys without looking.. menaing.. oil might not get check but yearly.. or even worse. I've know people that NEVER change their tractor oil.. I had a friend with horses and he wanted me to come over an mow his pasture... i loaded up my tractor and went over, and asked him why he had a pasture with no tractor.. he said he had a tractor but it was broke... after mowing i wanted to look at it.. was a small ford 1210 or 1220.. had 1 rear flat, and a hole the size of a nickle knocked in the diffy with a piece of duct tape over it... he had backed up to something in his barn FAST and knocked the hole in it and parked it right there.
We jacked it up, and drained the diffy, pulled the broke piece out of the diffy, cleaned with brake cleaner and epoxied the hole up.. re-filled the diffy.. no leaks.. filled the tire.. it didn't even have a hole... I check the oil.. it was like molasis.. I asked him when he changed it last.. he said he bought the tractor in 84 ( it was now 2002!! ).. changed the oil... charged the battery.. and the poor thing fired right up... he used it for another couple years untill he sold the place, and sold the tractor too... go figure. ( Had to sharpen the blades on his 4' hog too... he hadn't sharpened them since he got it in 84 either.... changed the gearbox oil as well... ).. That's the kind of guy that will love an electronic ignition... IE.. run the machine till something other than the ignition fails before they check it out!
soundguy
Well Chris, you got me.
Points are the wonder upgrade of the future. I'll be over and remove the EI, computer and fuel injection that's hamstringing your cars late some dark moonless night. Rest easier, the future is near and the low voltage, small sparking, quickly degrading points will be there to increase your fuel consumption, decrease available horsepower and spew out more pollution very soon.
Think we should petition the government to remove from people all equipment that has electronics as it, as that's the best sure fire never fail indicator of maintenance neglect?
Don't worry, I'll take out those fast failing electronics from your computer and replace them with vacuum tubes too! After all, the MTBF (Mean time between failure) for a vacuum tube is way up at close to 10 years! You sure wouldn't want to have any solid state transistors with their fault prone MTBF of 10 billion + years. Uh, you do have space for about a billion and a half vacuum tubes, right?
By the way, I think most EI systems have reverse polarity protection and have for quite some time and are very robust about key on etc etc etc.
Points are the wonder upgrade of the future. I'll be over and remove the EI, computer and fuel injection that's hamstringing your cars late some dark moonless night. Rest easier, the future is near and the low voltage, small sparking, quickly degrading points will be there to increase your fuel consumption, decrease available horsepower and spew out more pollution very soon.
Think we should petition the government to remove from people all equipment that has electronics as it, as that's the best sure fire never fail indicator of maintenance neglect?
Don't worry, I'll take out those fast failing electronics from your computer and replace them with vacuum tubes too! After all, the MTBF (Mean time between failure) for a vacuum tube is way up at close to 10 years! You sure wouldn't want to have any solid state transistors with their fault prone MTBF of 10 billion + years. Uh, you do have space for about a billion and a half vacuum tubes, right?
By the way, I think most EI systems have reverse polarity protection and have for quite some time and are very robust about key on etc etc etc.
I put one of the pertonix units a few years back and I think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Engine starts great and I'm fiddling with setting the points. It's a pretty big investment, but one I choose to make for the convenience. I really helped the way my engine ran too, but all that really means is I needed to adjust the points better and set the timing correct.
Wedge
Wedge
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