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4010 vs 730

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B

Bill VA

Well-known Member
The NG tractors have just been introduced. You are a farmer looking to buy a new tractor. Not to sure about these Diesel engines, so you are sticking with gas.

Which tractor would you buy and why? The 4010 or the proven 730 two cylinder with hand clutch design?

Just curious.

Thanks!
Bill
 
4010, but probably more minneapolis moline GVI LP, or 4010 Diesel.
730 would be last thing to buy.
Much prefer oliver 1800, MMs, or even a Ford 6000 with the SOS altought that would have been a bad choice on reliability. No way could i get a 730 for same price as a Six cylinder.
 
The 4010. The seat,steering and all the controls are so much more user friendly. There will be much less operator fatigue operating the 4010 and a better gear selection is going to help get more done. On tillage I doubt you will see much difference between the 2 but on a forage harvester or even a big pulltype combine the 4010 has it over on the 730. Tom
 
An older farmer like my uncles would have had the money to buy the newer technology 4010. Younger farmers could have been a little more cash strapped and would have been buying the late model trade-ins.

I don't know if dealers were discounting the old models they had in-stock or not. It all depends on how long the parts manufacturing plants and the assembly line were shut down for the drastic change-over. If they were down for months there may not have been many older models left in stock by the time the new generation arrived. I'm too young to have been aware of these things, maybe someone older remembers those kind of details from 62 years ago.
 
730 for sure. I'm trading in my 70 so I want a new tractor with all the same controls I am familiar with. Properly optioned the 730 can have everything a 4010 does. Wide front, float ride seat, dual remotes, three point, live power and PTO, power steering.
Yes the 730 has less horsepower, 58 for the 730. 84 for the 4010. But I do a lot of plowing in the spring and the 730 will be better able to put all 58 horses to the ground.
 
I think history shows that when the 4010 and 4020 came along, sales and values of 730s dropped off to nothing. We used to get the sales report sheets from the sale in Archbold and there would be more 730s brought in by dealers who had taken them in on new gen tractors than even Ford 8Ns or AC Roto Balers.
 
Why would you not be sure of diesel engines. It was proven technology by 1960. My answer would be neither if I had to stick with gas. Did JD ever build a decent large block gas engines after the 2 cylinders because I haven't seen any. Pains me to say this but IH and Oliver both had better gas engines.
 
That might be true but 3010s had less hp than 730s. Farmers generally didn't go backwards on horsepower when trading tractor. I'm willing to bet there was way more 720/30s traded for 4010s then 3010s.

This post was edited by GreenEnvy on 03/08/2022 at 03:08 pm.
 
Similar, but different. Dad went from a 50 to a 2510 gas. I couldn't believe they were made by the same company. It was 1966 and I had just turned 11. I hated the 50 and it hated me. The 2510 was a dream. Power everything. Even a little squirt like me could operate it with ease, and safety.
 
The question was would you buy a 4010gas or 730 gas? JD 6cyl gas motors have never been regarded as a good efficient power plant. If diesel was choice the 4010D was an improvement but a correctly weighed 730D
would pull 5 bottom all day long and use less fuel. The NG JD made JD the favorite tractor and IH never recovered. The 560 gas IH ran well just was around 55H.P. tops and was a 4 bottom tractor.
 
Pretty much a no-brainer. The new gens appeared to be the wave of the future, - not only for John Deere, but also for all other manufacturers. The 4010 was ages ahead of a 730 in 1960. I wish I was old enough to buy a new 4010 in 1961. Still happy today having a working 4010 which is 60 years old.
 
4010 replaced the 830 so that should be the question. but i still would take the 4010 over the old slow cumbersome 830. i like the 830's though . but then the 830 was not gas either. and i sure would not want the 4010 gas.
 
My dad chose a 630 in October of 1960 because in his eyes these newfangled 4 and 6 cylinder Deeres were too new and unproven. Also, Deere was having a fire sale to get rid of the rest of the two cylinder tractors and money talks, especially to my dad. I still have the 630 and it has been a good tractor but I sometimes wish he would have bought a 3010 in a way. The 630 is a better runner because in my humble opinion Deere quit making gas engines that were worth a darn in 1960. Everything else about the 3010 was far superior to the 630.
 
Dad tried out a 730 a few years before he bought the 4010 diesel that is still here today. If it were 1960 with 730's still on
the lot money would have loomed very large and I could see quite a few around here including dad buying a 730 due to the money
saved on being a closeout.
 
I remember it being said that there was left over stock of 2 cylinder JD's going into the second model year of the New Generation models. That a 630 still around at that point could be bought for a little over 2,000 dollars.
 
My father in law's uncle already had a 720 diesel when he traded an off brand older tractor on a new 3010 diesel. He said the only thing good about the 3010 was comfort and layout of controls. Otherwise the 720 was better. Better fuel economy, better power.
 
I never did own a gas tractor, but had plenty of diesel tractors.

About thirty years after the introduction of NG tractors, when I needed another tractor I chose a 730D in preference to other tractors with in line engines. Soon after I bought it, the 730D was converted to 4 wheel drive with the help of Roadless Traction. Now another thirty years on it is still going.

It is strange these days when driving down the road I rarely see a twentieth century tractor working in our area. They have all died or have been put out to pasture. The 730D just keeps going. The 730D shows no signs of dying and has coped with all the demands of the work and implements that are used with it. 4WD gives that extra grip on steep land particularly for holding back going down hill or reversing up a steep bank. Fuel economy and lugging power are outstanding.

The 730D tractor is the best that I have ever used in the special conditions on a small steep farm, and if I had my time over again I would do it again. More power would be useful. The next job is to put 830 valves in - I have a spare head that I am preparing.
 
I had 5 different 2 cylinder tractors and liked them, never did like the design of the NG tractors. Drove a 3020 that was uncles and was very uncomfortabile. Compaired in comfort to my 1944 Moline U. When wanted biger tractor than the late A went to all Fords and NO diesel for me, cannot stand that diesel fuel, makes me sick.
 
(quoted from post at 09:33:43 03/09/22) I had 5 different 2 cylinder tractors and liked them, never did like the design of the NG tractors. Drove a 3020 that was uncles and was very uncomfortabile. Compaired in comfort to my 1944 Moline U.
Click to expand...

Not very many JD tractor owners will agree with you! 184,879 4020's & 74,4663 3020.s were sold new
 
I dont think anybody would agree. Only thing the 2
cylinders had over the NG from a ergonomic standpoint
was the location of the hydraulic levers and JD took care
of that in 69
 
Wow! I've never been inside the Waterloo tractor plant, but I worked at FARMALL for 5 years, especially during the change over from 86-series to 88-series. Not a whole lot of common parts between a 1486 and a 5288. BUT we had already built a couple prototype 88-series tractors and Hinsdale had run them thru their paces, no problems, and the LAST 1086 was on the stands that carried the tractor down the start assembly line. Right behind it on the next stand was the first 5088. The 3088/3288/3488/3688 had quite a few similar but maybe not interchangeable parts with the 86 series. But absolutely no reason to have any break between machines on a model change-over.
 
(quoted from post at 15:51:30 03/09/22) Wow! I've never been inside the Waterloo tractor plant, but I worked at FARMALL for 5 years, especially during the change over from 86-series to 88-series. Not a whole lot of common parts between a 1486 and a 5288. BUT we had already built a couple prototype 88-series tractors and Hinsdale had run them thru their paces, no problems, and the LAST 1086 was on the stands that carried the tractor down the start assembly line. Right behind it on the next stand was the first 5088. The 3088/3288/3488/3688 had quite a few similar but maybe not interchangeable parts with the 86 series. But absolutely no reason to have any break between machines on a model change-over.
Click to expand...


In the book "new gnration of power", it is explained that Deere had to retool the entire machining and assembly plant. Some models were stored outside of waterloo in a field, particularly models that would take few years to replace, like the 840 scraper. Deere stored enough for the three years waiting time.
Also some models were shipped overseas in sizeable quantities, like the 730D standard, shipped to France in 1959. The last sold in 1963 with a discount. People were seeing them as retarded akwards tractors, similar to the hot bulbs dinisaurs. I like the look of them, but i donotlike the look of flywheel problematic, expensive v4 starter.
One could only imagine what would have happened if Deere had done the right thing and move away from two cylinders in 1945?
Then they would have had a Diesel like the massey harris 55, or bigger even engines like molines and case had.

When you watch a case 500 6 cylinders plow against a Deere R, I see no reason to get the R.
 

cvphoto119674.jpg
 
JD did the whole ditching the 2 cylinders for the NG the right way. They took their time to make sure they got it right with no serious flaws. You forget they matched IH in the late 50s with the 2 cylinders alone. And JD just didn't slap 6 cylinder engine into a conventional chassis.
But instead they added features that took years for everyone to match. Features that were good enough to stay on production through the 70s. They did their homework.

And on the 500s. I have a pair of Case 500 tractors along with some 2 cylinders. I also have a MH 55 diesel. You can make an argument Case had the best diesel engine in this power class. However, from the dash back the ergonomics were from the 1920s. Sit down low, steel
seat with the hydraulic levers in your knee. Far as the horsepower goes, course the 500 has more horsepower. It came out 4 years later then the R. No doubt a 500 will out pull an R. Switch out the R for an 80 and the results are reversed. And yes the 80 and the 500 were on the
market at the same time.

The R was targeted at the WD-9 the top selling wheatland tractor at the time which had identical hp to the R then eventually IH too came out with a higher hp WD-9 and then Super WD9. Company A comes out with new tractor. Company B a year later comes with a slightly bigger
or more advance tractor to top Company A's tractor. And then company C will do the same thing to top company A or match company B. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS. JD did just fine with the 2 cylinder diesels. If you actually care to research a little they either topped the market or
were right up there with IH. And if you check the horsepower figures, the 820/30 were right up there with everybody else.

This post was edited by GreenEnvy on 03/10/2022 at 06:49 am.
 
A lot of the tooling and equipment were obsolete and inadequate for the job of producing the 3010 and 4010. Also, the interruption was for just months and not years as some have tried to claim.
 
Funny coming from him since the Farmall works was out dated, old, antiquated, and inefficient compared JD which is why it was closed when Tenneco bought out IH ag.
 
(quoted from post at 07:48:24 03/10/22) JD did the whole ditching the 2 cylinders for the NG the right way. They took their time to make sure they got it right with no serious flaws. You forget they matched IH in the late 50s with the 2 cylinders alone. And JD just didn't slap 6 cylinder engine into a conventional chassis.
But instead they added features that took years for everyone to match. Features that were good enough to stay on production through the 70s. They did their homework.

And on the 500s. I have a pair of Case 500 tractors along with some 2 cylinders. I also have a MH 55 diesel. You can make an argument Case had the best diesel engine in this power class. However, from the dash back the ergonomics were from the 1920s. Sit down low, steel
seat with the hydraulic levers in your knee. Far as the horsepower goes, course the 500 has more horsepower. It came out 4 years later then the R. No doubt a 500 will out pull an R. Switch out the R for an 80 and the results are reversed. And yes the 80 and the 500 were on the
market at the same time.

The R was targeted at the WD-9 the top selling wheatland tractor at the time which had identical hp to the R then eventually IH too came out with a higher hp WD-9 and then Super WD9. Company A comes out with new tractor. Company B a year later comes with a slightly bigger
or more advance tractor to top Company A's tractor. And then company C will do the same thing to top company A or match company B. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS. JD did just fine with the 2 cylinder diesels. If you actually care to research a little they either topped the market or
were right up there with IH. And if you check the horsepower figures, the 820/30 were right up there with everybody else.

This post was edited by GreenEnvy on 03/10/2022 at 06:49 am.
Click to expand...

I know the new gen very wheel, I have many of them, and i think also that Deere had very superior tractor ease of handling (except hand clutch), but their engine was no good. No comparison to an MM, or a Perkins P6. Just imagine if the R or 80 had a Moline or Case engine of the same period, and if the 730D had a Perkins P6, or similar reliability, economy and ease of starting made by Deere... then people would use them more for choring than the useless trailer queens they are today.

Deere was doing good on sales, but to me, it was due to IH selling a 20 years old tractor line, other manufacturers making good tractors having a poor dealer network, because of Deere overall built and service quality and IN SPITE of their engine.
I admit that saying this can be abrupt for some of you, and i respect your opinion.
 

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4010 gasoline versus 730 gasoline? 730
4010 diesel versus 730 gasoline or diesel? 4010 by a long shot.

I bet more guys regretted their purchase of a gashoglean 3010/4010 than guys did sticking with the two-bangers. They may have been a whole lot more comfortable while driving it back to the fuel barrel, though. Anyone who thinks a two banger is more comfortable than a New Gen is nuts. I say that as an owner of both. I appreciate my 60. I appreciate my 3010 more after driving my 60. I appreciate my 4640 more after driving my 3010. If I had a 7810, I would appreciate it most of all.
 
I dont know I like the new generation seats and controls
about as well as any tractor and Im a big boy and Ive been
on a few .
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There was quite a difference in plows.The pull type plows,mounted plows, and semi mounted plows all pulled differently.At one time JD was king of the plows but as technology progressed you began to see many different colors.Pulling a smaller plow faster would do same amount of acres but sometimes the prestige of having a larger plow was a factor.A good 720 was less than 60 H.P. and a good 4010 was close to 90 so if weight was the same with a semi mounted plow where traction was better utilized 4010 was winner. You could see the smoke for a long distance of the turned up 720/730s.
 
International would have went from the letter series straight to the 88 series to equal the 2 cylinder to new generation change over and the 88 series still wasnt as good as 4010 if it could have a decent cab
 
What speeds did those two tractors pull the same loads? Third, fourth and fifth gears (out of 6) on a 730 about matched the speed of third, fourth and fifth gears (out of 8) on a 4010.
 
Yes definitely. Lots of difference between a drawn a mounted and a semi mount rollover and one way 12 14 16 18 inch bottoms . You see the smoke from my tractors from a long ways away
 
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