4020 electrical

[hoosier43fan]

Only owned a few months so not much history. 12 v batteries seem to hold charge for 4-5 starting cycles before another charge needed. Generator seems likely culprit but light works and goes out at mid-idle. Just trying to determine if I should take generator in for a test before I spend $350 for a new pair of batteries.

 

[wore out]

What is the battery voltage with it running above idle?

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 19:53:26 09/30/23)
What is the battery voltage with it running above idle?

Not sure how to check that

 

[craigco]

Check the voltage regulator. One of my
3010s was doing the same. Charge light
worked like it should but wouldn't
charge. Swapped voltage regulator from
another one and fixed it.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 03:13:42 10/01/23)

(quoted from post at 19:53:26 09/30/23)
What is the battery voltage with it running above idle?

Not sure how to check that

A hand held device called volt/ohm meter can check generator operating voltage. JD generator of that era is known to not put out a lot of charging amps. Engine needs to run several hours to recharge electricity used during starting procedure.

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 04:30:52 10/01/23)

(quoted from post at 03:13:42 10/01/23)

(quoted from post at 19:53:26 09/30/23)
What is the battery voltage with it running above idle?

Not sure how to check that

A hand held device called volt/ohm meter can check generator operating voltage. JD generator of that era is known to not put out a lot of charging amps. Engine needs to run several hours to recharge electricity used during starting procedure.

I ll check that. Tractor is only used to move a big round bale from storage to the feeder, occasionally shove a tree out of the field. So typical run time is maybe 30 minutes tops and not high rpm. Might need to just leave a full time charger on it? 1.5 amp trickle? Your theory makes a lot of sense.

 

[John T]

Try a DC Voltmeter on the batteries maybe 30 minutes after shut down. EACH fully
charged 12 Volt lead acid battery at rest and stabilized should read around 12.6
volts ARE THEY ???? Are both near the same ??? Wait a few hours (and/or a day) and
try again to see if they have discharged ?? Also if they do discharge when setting,
try unhooking them and see if they still discharge or not ??? (to see if its a
battery problem or theres a faulty discharge path??)... With engine running at fast
RPM ifffffffffff the charging system is working ??? each battery voltage should rise
to at least 13 up to near 14 subject to RPM and battery conditions IS IT ??? NOTE
the two 12 volters in series would read around 25.2 if fully charged and 26 to near
28 running at fast RPM if charging system is okay ??

See if each cell has water above the plates and none are gray milky or off colored
indicative if a bad cell ??? Once charged USE A LOAD TESTER which can indicate a
battery condition.......Use a hydrometer to test specific gravity of each cell on
both batteries....

If you take the batteries in most shops will test them for FREE ... Some 24 volt
diesels will discharge one battery when setting if the starter motor has excess
copper brush dust accumulated.

TAKE TO A BATTERY SHOP FOR FREE TESTING BEFORE BUYING NEW BATTERIES Of course even
new batteries will run down if the charging system isnt working and also run down if
theres a faulty discharge path !!! If ONLY one is discharging when setting it could
be a starter copper dust problem noted above..

John T NOT a new gen or 24 volt expert so see if they agree

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 06:43:34 10/01/23) Try a DC Voltmeter on the batteries maybe 30 minutes after shut down. EACH fully
charged 12 Volt lead acid battery at rest and stabilized should read around 12.6
volts ARE THEY ???? Are both near the same ??? Wait a few hours (and/or a day) and
try again to see if they have discharged ?? Also if they do discharge when setting,
try unhooking them and see if they still discharge or not ??? (to see if its a
battery problem or theres a faulty discharge path??)... With engine running at fast
RPM ifffffffffff the charging system is working ??? each battery voltage should rise
to at least 13 up to near 14 subject to RPM and battery conditions IS IT ??? NOTE
the two 12 volters in series would read around 25.2 if fully charged and 26 to near
28 running at fast RPM if charging system is okay ??

See if each cell has water above the plates and none are gray milky or off colored
indicative if a bad cell ??? Once charged USE A LOAD TESTER which can indicate a
battery condition.......Use a hydrometer to test specific gravity of each cell on
both batteries....

If you take the batteries in most shops will test them for FREE ... Some 24 volt
diesels will discharge one battery when setting if the starter motor has excess
copper brush dust accumulated.

TAKE TO A BATTERY SHOP FOR FREE TESTING BEFORE BUYING NEW BATTERIES Of course even
new batteries will run down if the charging system isnt working and also run down if
theres a faulty discharge path !!! If ONLY one is discharging when setting it could
be a starter copper dust problem noted above..

John T NOT a new gen or 24 volt expert so see if they agree

I think I can do that, many thanks.

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 09:57:22 10/01/23)

(quoted from post at 06:43:34 10/01/23) Try a DC Voltmeter on the batteries maybe 30 minutes after shut down. EACH fully
charged 12 Volt lead acid battery at rest and stabilized should read around 12.6
volts ARE THEY ???? Are both near the same ??? Wait a few hours (and/or a day) and
try again to see if they have discharged ?? Also if they do discharge when setting,
try unhooking them and see if they still discharge or not ??? (to see if its a
battery problem or theres a faulty discharge path??)... With engine running at fast
RPM ifffffffffff the charging system is working ??? each battery voltage should rise
to at least 13 up to near 14 subject to RPM and battery conditions IS IT ??? NOTE
the two 12 volters in series would read around 25.2 if fully charged and 26 to near
28 running at fast RPM if charging system is okay ??

See if each cell has water above the plates and none are gray milky or off colored
indicative if a bad cell ??? Once charged USE A LOAD TESTER which can indicate a
battery condition.......Use a hydrometer to test specific gravity of each cell on
both batteries....

If you take the batteries in most shops will test them for FREE ... Some 24 volt
diesels will discharge one battery when setting if the starter motor has excess
copper brush dust accumulated.

TAKE TO A BATTERY SHOP FOR FREE TESTING BEFORE BUYING NEW BATTERIES Of course even
new batteries will run down if the charging system isnt working and also run down if
theres a faulty discharge path !!! If ONLY one is discharging when setting it could
be a starter copper dust problem noted above..

John T NOT a new gen or 24 volt expert so see if they agree

I think I can do that, many thanks.

As I think through this I'd like to start with the generator. Both batteries were discharged, both had water in the cells. Two posts on generator, assuming a + and a -. Not sure which is which, maybe I'll see a mark if I wipe off. Anyway, guy in town will test and rebuild for $100 and change, but if I can test on the tractor might save me some time. Thanks John.

 

[John T]

Fellow Hoosier, while sure your genny may be bad I WOULD STILL INVESTIGATE BAD (or
fully discharged) BATTERIES AS THE PROBLEM BEFORE REBUILDING THE GENERATOR. The
thing is ifffffffff the batteries are totally discharged ??? the genny alone (NOT
any high rate charging system) may not be able to bring them back. If you have a
good 12 Volt battery charger one at a time put it on each battery and let it run,
see what happens and if they start drawing charging current and their voltage begins
to rise. Again if at rest and stabilized if full charged (give it plenty of time)
they each would read around 12.6 volts. IF THEY ARE DOWN TO 12 OR LESS THEY MAY NOT
TAKE CHARGE on a charger let alone that tractors generator even if its fine. Again
consider taking them to a shop for a free charge and LOAD TEST..

Its your choice and while the genny or Voltage Regulator or a simple wiring problem
may indeed be at fault I ADVISE TRYING TO CHARGE WITH A CHARGER AND CHECKING AND
TESTING THE BATTERIES before rebuilding the generator, but sure it may be bad ????
In my post below I described how to use a DC voltmeter on each battery to see if its
voltage rises with tractor running at RPM indicating the generator is working
HOWEVER they may be so bad and/or so deep discharged that tractors generator cant
raise their voltage EVEN IF ITS FINE..... Of course your generator may be at fault I
CANT KNOW OR SAY FROM HERE.

Im NOT any new gen or 24 volt system expert, see what they have to say but I
believe the above is accurate ...

John T Lifelong happy and proud Hoosier

 

[miangus]

You said 12-volt batteries, an early non converted 4020 will be a 24-volt system with two 12-volt batteries, a late will have to 6-volt batteries. A converted early system may have two 12 volts in parallel. I am assuming a diesel. Sometimes the early 24-volt system will get dust and grim in the starter housing which can cause the battery to discharge.

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 05:25:51 10/02/23) Fellow Hoosier, while sure your genny may be bad I WOULD STILL INVESTIGATE BAD (or
fully discharged) BATTERIES AS THE PROBLEM BEFORE REBUILDING THE GENERATOR. The
thing is ifffffffff the batteries are totally discharged ??? the genny alone (NOT
any high rate charging system) may not be able to bring them back. If you have a
good 12 Volt battery charger one at a time put it on each battery and let it run,
see what happens and if they start drawing charging current and their voltage begins
to rise. Again if at rest and stabilized if full charged (give it plenty of time)
they each would read around 12.6 volts. IF THEY ARE DOWN TO 12 OR LESS THEY MAY NOT
TAKE CHARGE on a charger let alone that tractors generator even if its fine. Again
consider taking them to a shop for a free charge and LOAD TEST..

Its your choice and while the genny or Voltage Regulator or a simple wiring problem
may indeed be at fault I ADVISE TRYING TO CHARGE WITH A CHARGER AND CHECKING AND
TESTING THE BATTERIES before rebuilding the generator, but sure it may be bad ????
In my post below I described how to use a DC voltmeter on each battery to see if its
voltage rises with tractor running at RPM indicating the generator is working
HOWEVER they may be so bad and/or so deep discharged that tractors generator cant
raise their voltage EVEN IF ITS FINE..... Of course your generator may be at fault I
CANT KNOW OR SAY FROM HERE.

Im NOT any new gen or 24 volt system expert, see what they have to say but I
believe the above is accurate ...

John T Lifelong happy and proud Hoosier

For what it s worth, put a charger on each battery, one set for a 6 amp charge the other 10 amp. 90 minutes, spun the motor for a quick start. History says, I ll get 4-5 more starts, then just a click, and get the chargers out again.

 

[ss55]

Maybe take both the generator and the starter in for a test? They might both benefit from a good disassembly and cleaning.

 

[John T]

Thanks for the update, that sounds like it could actually be your charging system
isn't performing (See my voltmeter tests when running I posted below to check that)
or else Ive seen bad batteries that self discharge in a short time when setting or
else there's a shorting path when setting such as excess copper brush dust in the
starter motor draining one battery ...........

Sorry I just cant tell much more from here, test your charging system and test your
batteries, it may be one or both is at fault ???????

John T NOT a New Gen or 24 Volt guy

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 13:53:42 10/02/23) Thanks for the update, that sounds like it could actually be your charging system
isn't performing (See my voltmeter tests when running I posted below to check that)
or else Ive seen bad batteries that self discharge in a short time when setting or
else there's a shorting path when setting such as excess copper brush dust in the
starter motor draining one battery ...........

Sorry I just cant tell much more from here, test your charging system and test your
batteries, it may be one or both is at fault ???????

John T NOT a New Gen or 24 Volt guy

Sounds good John. Gonna put a meter on the generator when Iget a break. If it s good I ll move on to batteries and starter. Small town here but lucky that have auto electric geek who can get to the root of it at good price.

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 19:06:38 10/03/23)

(quoted from post at 13:53:42 10/02/23) Thanks for the update, that sounds like it could actually be your charging system
isn't performing (See my voltmeter tests when running I posted below to check that)
or else Ive seen bad batteries that self discharge in a short time when setting or
else there's a shorting path when setting such as excess copper brush dust in the
starter motor draining one battery ...........

Sorry I just cant tell much more from here, test your charging system and test your
batteries, it may be one or both is at fault ???????

John T NOT a New Gen or 24 Volt guy

Sounds good John. Gonna put a meter on the generator when Iget a break. If it s good I ll move on to batteries and starch youter. Small town here but lucky that have auto electric geek who can get to the root of it at good price.

After talking with fellow 4020 owners I think I'm ready to just go to a one wire alternator. Can you recommend a source? I saw one on YT at a nice price for my '64 but it doesn't specify one wire.
I'll save the generator for a future owner if he wants it. I like simple.

 

[hoosier43fan]

(quoted from post at 19:06:38 10/03/23)

(quoted from post at 13:53:42 10/02/23) Thanks for the update, that sounds like it could actually be your charging system
isn't performing (See my voltmeter tests when running I posted below to check that)
or else Ive seen bad batteries that self discharge in a short time when setting or
else there's a shorting path when setting such as excess copper brush dust in the
starter motor draining one battery ...........

Sorry I just cant tell much more from here, test your charging system and test your
batteries, it may be one or both is at fault ???????

John T NOT a New Gen or 24 Volt guy

Sounds good John. Gonna put a meter on the generator when Iget a break. If it s good I ll move on to batteries and starter. Small town here but lucky that have auto electric geek who can get to the root of it at good price.

Don't mean to drag this out but think I can close this up. Meter showed 7 v at idle on generator, 14 at high throttle. Battery showed same numbers. So I guess don't let run at idle without cranking up for a bit before shutting down. I've been keeping the rpm's up while using and startups are solid, even after several cycles. You may not be a new gen guy, but you've certainly given me a great tutorial! And saved me a few $. Thanks John T. Good Hoosier!

 

[hoosier43fan]

Thanks for advice Tx. Meter shows that low rpm as the culprit. 7v at idle, 14 at higher rpm, gen and battery same numbers. Have operated with these facts mind and spins like a top after several cycles. So thanks, thinking you've provided good advice on other topics as well. Best wishes to you and all Texans.

 

[perzaklie]

Late joining in but I get my one wire Delco Gold 10Si and 12Si alternators brand new through Amazon. Usually less that $90.

I put one on my 12v 4020 and am in the process of converting a 24v to 12v on an older 4020.

Try https://www.jimcotest.com/ if you need any mounting adapters for most any piece of equipment alternaor/generator needs.