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Sorry, no
I can only give you a rough estimate of build date, based on known numbers built, beginning and ending serial numbers, numbers of days worked, etc. 536024 was likely built about the second week of March 44.
Unfortunatly the only way you can get detailed build info is from Two-Cylinder Club. It comes in the form of a research document that costs $35 and takes about 6-8 weeks to receive. You have to be a member to obtain one or get someone who is a member to get it for you.
They only made registers for unstyled B, G, and 30 Series tractors. Unstyled A was to be the next one out but the whole thing folded due to extremely poor marketing of the first three. A scenario to be repeated by them over and over.
I can only give you a rough estimate of build date, based on known numbers built, beginning and ending serial numbers, numbers of days worked, etc. 536024 was likely built about the second week of March 44.
Unfortunatly the only way you can get detailed build info is from Two-Cylinder Club. It comes in the form of a research document that costs $35 and takes about 6-8 weeks to receive. You have to be a member to obtain one or get someone who is a member to get it for you.
They only made registers for unstyled B, G, and 30 Series tractors. Unstyled A was to be the next one out but the whole thing folded due to extremely poor marketing of the first three. A scenario to be repeated by them over and over.
Lee B
Member
How many were they building a week around that time? My 524,876 A might have been built in late 43? 'War year' tractors covered what year span or numbers exactly? Thanks, very informative.
Well that's kind of an open ended question on the war years thing, but war year tractors covered the years the war was going on (42-45 for us). The most visible affect of material shortage mandates was during the middle part of that, for the most part, 43-44. Steel serial number tags, cast frames, steel radiators, very few rubber tires, complete stoppage of the building of certain models, off and on (G,H, as an example), and so on.
One can basically look at it this way, if the war effort needed the material, then the priority was for that, no exceptions. You may remember steel pennies in 43. Most non-ferrous metals were in high demand for war related production. It also related to energy use and manufacturing costs. Angle iron frames and cast frames are both made of iron, but the energy used and the cost involved in producing steel is far greater than cast iron.
Now for the tractors.I'll use A's as an example. In 42 there were 9751 general purpose A's built, in 43 it had dropped to 4162, in 44 it picked back up significantly to 17840 (we were starting to kick a** at that point). 43 is the low point across the board on tractor production. There were of course other factors that contributed as well. Low demand, poor economy, prior to the war. High demand as the war ended.
A copy of the Production Log has many telling things in it for someone interested in details, like myself. For instance, there were 4162 A's built in 43 and so you could say that there were about 350 being built per month. The log however shows that there were no A's built at all from Nov 42 through March 43. B's were about the only tractor being built through this short time period.
Your tractor 524876 was likely built about the second week in July 43, as a 44 model. In July 43 they built 1025 A's including 8 AN's and 21 AW's. Remember that the production (model) year from 39-47 was from July 1st through June 30th.
If you have particular questions about a specific model, or month, etc., let me know and I can look it up. The log only contains numbers built, not serial numbers, but along with a serial number list, a lot of details can be deduced.
One can basically look at it this way, if the war effort needed the material, then the priority was for that, no exceptions. You may remember steel pennies in 43. Most non-ferrous metals were in high demand for war related production. It also related to energy use and manufacturing costs. Angle iron frames and cast frames are both made of iron, but the energy used and the cost involved in producing steel is far greater than cast iron.
Now for the tractors.I'll use A's as an example. In 42 there were 9751 general purpose A's built, in 43 it had dropped to 4162, in 44 it picked back up significantly to 17840 (we were starting to kick a** at that point). 43 is the low point across the board on tractor production. There were of course other factors that contributed as well. Low demand, poor economy, prior to the war. High demand as the war ended.
A copy of the Production Log has many telling things in it for someone interested in details, like myself. For instance, there were 4162 A's built in 43 and so you could say that there were about 350 being built per month. The log however shows that there were no A's built at all from Nov 42 through March 43. B's were about the only tractor being built through this short time period.
Your tractor 524876 was likely built about the second week in July 43, as a 44 model. In July 43 they built 1025 A's including 8 AN's and 21 AW's. Remember that the production (model) year from 39-47 was from July 1st through June 30th.
If you have particular questions about a specific model, or month, etc., let me know and I can look it up. The log only contains numbers built, not serial numbers, but along with a serial number list, a lot of details can be deduced.
Sorry no info.
What A GURU mentioned is what I would have said. I have heard though that some will have you pay and all you get is date made and where it shipped from and not where to. Maybe someone has had better luck getting where it went and more info.
Would like to find out for myself also.
What A GURU mentioned is what I would have said. I have heard though that some will have you pay and all you get is date made and where it shipped from and not where to. Maybe someone has had better luck getting where it went and more info.
Would like to find out for myself also.
Would you mind giving your estimate for 581649? This tractor has caused a lot of arguments because when they hear 47 they think stamped frame. I've had a lot of people tell me I have the wrong block, that someone has put a 60 crank in it ( just because it had insert rods) , etc... It has block A2324R.
581649 was maybe built about the second or third week of December 46, as a 47 model. This is a very rough estimate, and certain styled years I hate to even give estimates due to the huge discrepancies between numbers built and beginning and ending serial numbers. Unstyled A's work out very nicely most of the time but some of the styled years are just crazy upside down on the numbers.
My numbers are sometimes off a digit or two due to me punching the wrong key on a caculator, but in defense of your tractor having the angle frame versus the pressed steel frame, there were 12532 angle frame 47's and only 3340 pressed frame 47's. The late styled, pressed frame came out at 584000, and the previous 673 tags were scrapped, making 583326 the last angle frame A.
To be honest with you I don't know the details on which block or which crank fits what serial number group, without looking through a parts book. I could figure it out but others on here could probably tell you right off the top of their head, without looking. I know those things on unstyled and very early styled tractors, but the further it gets into the styled era, the less knowledgeable I am.
Well I looked in my parts book and A2324R is the correct block up to 583999. If you look in a parts book you will see some notations about allowing credit on exchange rods if they have babbit bearings only. It appears you could have either type from 488000-583999. My guess would be that they came from the factory with babbit in this serial number group. If at any point later the rods were replaced or repaired, they probably got upgraded, insert bearing type rods. In other words an upgraded, superceded part, for an older tractor. That kind of thing is done all the time to this day. Probably was a bulletin on the subject as well.
Someone out there with knowledge in this subject, speak up. We know you're out there.
My numbers are sometimes off a digit or two due to me punching the wrong key on a caculator, but in defense of your tractor having the angle frame versus the pressed steel frame, there were 12532 angle frame 47's and only 3340 pressed frame 47's. The late styled, pressed frame came out at 584000, and the previous 673 tags were scrapped, making 583326 the last angle frame A.
To be honest with you I don't know the details on which block or which crank fits what serial number group, without looking through a parts book. I could figure it out but others on here could probably tell you right off the top of their head, without looking. I know those things on unstyled and very early styled tractors, but the further it gets into the styled era, the less knowledgeable I am.
Well I looked in my parts book and A2324R is the correct block up to 583999. If you look in a parts book you will see some notations about allowing credit on exchange rods if they have babbit bearings only. It appears you could have either type from 488000-583999. My guess would be that they came from the factory with babbit in this serial number group. If at any point later the rods were replaced or repaired, they probably got upgraded, insert bearing type rods. In other words an upgraded, superceded part, for an older tractor. That kind of thing is done all the time to this day. Probably was a bulletin on the subject as well.
Someone out there with knowledge in this subject, speak up. We know you're out there.
44A. If I haven't misunderstood your comments, you are right, sort of. This is actually something that I have recently been trying to decipher myself. There have been articles in Two-Cylinder (and maybe somehwere else) in the past, regarding final destinations given as a T number rather than the name of a town. T-C's response to this was that it was unknown for sure, and that it likely was a rail shipment designation number, for a town, or something like that. After pouring over thousands of individual records, I think this is wrong and that what it does mean is this.
I will use B # 24916 from the production register, as an example. It says the tractor went to the branch house in St.Louis on 9/26/36, final destination T39223 (instead of a town). If you dig further you will see tractors 24922, 24927, also had final destination T39223, and were shipped the same day. They in fact were all built the same day, but frequently tractors sharing the same T number are much farther apart in serial number and not built on the same day. The common thread to these T numbers is that any tractor sharing the same T number, went to the same branch on the same day. It's an invoice number, in my opinion. Those tractors with T numbers for final destination were SOLD to the branch house for their inventory, or stock. They were then later sold by that branch house and their final destination was recorded by the branch, but not the factory in Waterloo. The tractor was no longer "owned" so to speak by the main factory, but was rather the stock, and property, of the branch house. If the sales records of a branch house were to be found, it would likely all come to light. The bottom line is that the final destination is not known, and never will be, unless these kinds of documents were to surface.
I obsess about these kinds of details all the time. I should have been interested in this sort of detail digging 20 years ago, when all the answers were at JD Archives for anyone to look at. Now it is basically in the control of a single individual, who just doesn't seem to care, and worst of all won't let anyone else have access to it that does care.
Also, sometimes there is even less info available on an individual tractor, simply because it either was not recorded, or was not properly transferred from the hand written ledgers at JD to the electronic records that T-C has.
Having said all that, and the criticizms I have for T-C in general (and they are many), there is no better source for accurate information about the past history of JD tractors. I would also say that there was probably no company that kept, and still has, better records that JD did.
You just have to accept what you get and try to decipher the rest.
I would give anything to have a production register for unstyled A's.
I will use B # 24916 from the production register, as an example. It says the tractor went to the branch house in St.Louis on 9/26/36, final destination T39223 (instead of a town). If you dig further you will see tractors 24922, 24927, also had final destination T39223, and were shipped the same day. They in fact were all built the same day, but frequently tractors sharing the same T number are much farther apart in serial number and not built on the same day. The common thread to these T numbers is that any tractor sharing the same T number, went to the same branch on the same day. It's an invoice number, in my opinion. Those tractors with T numbers for final destination were SOLD to the branch house for their inventory, or stock. They were then later sold by that branch house and their final destination was recorded by the branch, but not the factory in Waterloo. The tractor was no longer "owned" so to speak by the main factory, but was rather the stock, and property, of the branch house. If the sales records of a branch house were to be found, it would likely all come to light. The bottom line is that the final destination is not known, and never will be, unless these kinds of documents were to surface.
I obsess about these kinds of details all the time. I should have been interested in this sort of detail digging 20 years ago, when all the answers were at JD Archives for anyone to look at. Now it is basically in the control of a single individual, who just doesn't seem to care, and worst of all won't let anyone else have access to it that does care.
Also, sometimes there is even less info available on an individual tractor, simply because it either was not recorded, or was not properly transferred from the hand written ledgers at JD to the electronic records that T-C has.
Having said all that, and the criticizms I have for T-C in general (and they are many), there is no better source for accurate information about the past history of JD tractors. I would also say that there was probably no company that kept, and still has, better records that JD did.
You just have to accept what you get and try to decipher the rest.
I would give anything to have a production register for unstyled A's.
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