46 Continental F227a running issues

[Nick Harrington]

I've got a 46 Clark 8Ton forklift with the original Continental F227A flathead 6 in it and she's not doing well. will start and run for a bit but has no power and then dies out. I'm working through it with my uncle and need some help with a spec. I cant find. Looking for a voltage spec for the coil. Primary and secondary sides of coil, cranking and running voltage specs. I've got the manual for the engine and have some troubleshooting guidance but nothing for testing the parts I have. Does anyone know of other manuals or sites to find that out from or have that knowledge personally? Thank you in advance! I can provide more info if this is not enough or unclear.

 

[used red MN]

Hello Nick welcome to YT! You say “original…flat head 6” which is fine. Almost without a doubt it originally came with a 6 volt system. However many of these machines have been converted to 12 volts. To give the values or at least ball park numbers we need to know which it is. If it is a 6 volt than the voltage at the coil should be right at 6 volts. In a 12 volt system it can be running a 6 volt coil with a resistor in the feed circuit to drop the voltage. Giving a running voltage in one of those systems is a little tricky. The distributor side when cranking should go between showing voltage and nearly no voltage depending if the points are open or closed. A running voltage spec on this side of the circuit is also a tricky value to nail down. Here is a link to an IH electrical manual that has a lot of good solid theory in it that I am sure would be helpful to you. IH electrical manual Basically points with clean flat contact surfaces and set to the proper gap, that is the heart of a Kettering ignition. If you looked at the points and they fit this description and have a test light and it flashes on and off as you crank the engine you have about an “80 percent” assurance that the ignition system is probably not your trouble. Chasing down the other 20 percent takes some skill and applied basic knowledge.
Your symptoms sound suspiciously like they could be a lacking supply of fuel to the engine. Have you investigated the filters and the supply system? It may very well only be relying on a sediment bowl and a screen to filter the fuel which works well when everything is clean and up to snuff. Does the fuel tank set over the engine and use gravity to feed the carb or is there a fuel pump in the system?

 

[Nick Harrington]

thank you for the welcome aboard! it a flat head straight six. it is running on 12 volts right now. thank you for the link i will look into it later. it wasnt running at all so i replace the fuel filter and cleaned the bowl its housed in ( inline fuel pump works good) and i replaced the worn points and gapped it to spec and that got it running. it will run and idle around on flat ground until it gets warmed up. the idle then is inconsistent and after it dies or is stalled ( manual transmission ) it will not refire even with starting fluid. we are thinking something is getting heated and expanding and causing the non-start. im not good with electrical diagnostics so most of this will be relayed to my uncle. its got new plugs and the wires look fine. the condenser in the distributor was also replaced. we are probably going to switch out the coil and go from there next.

 

[DanielW]

A very, very common problem with lot of the Continentals of that era was the governor getting a little 'over active': It would surge and (most significantly) die out when it came under a load. It's not because the governor isn't reacting, quite the opposite: It over-reacts - opening up the throttle way too far and fast when it comes under a load and stalling it out. It'll seem like it's lacking power and unable to start under a load, especially when letting out the clutch to start moving. Have someone watch the governor/throttle linkage as you let out the clutch or put a load on it to see if it tries to open all the way for a second.

It's a very easy fix: On the front of the governor body there's a single bolt with a jam nut that adjusts pressure on a friction disc in the governor to stabilize it's action. Loosen the jam nut, turn the bolt in 1/2 a turn, try it again, ad keep adjusting until it 'calms down'. You don't want to go too tight or it won't idle properly. Depending on the configuration, it's sometimes a little tricky to get access to the bolt as it's up against the rad.

Another very common problem for any old equipment that causes it to die after running for a few minutes is rust/gunk in the fuel tank floating around, which gets jammed in the outlet port and partially plugs it when it starts sucking fuel from the tank. It has enough flow to fill the bowl after it's shut down for a bit and a small trickle to keep it running for a little while, but it won't be able to keep up with the demand for fuel and the fuel level in the carb bowl will slowly get lower and lower until it dies, then taking several minutes to fill up again.

 

[leroy in ne]

Have you checked for a hot blue spark jumping 3/16 to 1/4 inch as soon as it dies? If not it may still be the condenser. I've had new ones bad out of the box, behaved the same way and I about wore the screws out on the carb. thinking it was a fuel problem. Try putting the old one back in.

 

[Janicholson]

thank you for the welcome aboard! it a flat head straight six. it is running on 12 volts right now. thank you for the link i will look into it later. it wasnt running at all so i replace the fuel filter and cleaned the bowl its housed in ( inline fuel pump works good) and i replaced the worn points and gapped it to spec and that got it running. it will run and idle around on flat ground until it gets warmed up. the idle then is inconsistent and after it dies or is stalled ( manual transmission ) it will not refire even with starting fluid. we are thinking something is getting heated and expanding and causing the non-start. im not good with electrical diagnostics so most of this will be relayed to my uncle. its got new plugs and the wires look fine. the condenser in the distributor was also replaced. we are probably going to switch out the coil and go from there next.

If the coil that is in it gets hot, that is likely the issue. Changing it is not too expensive. If no resistor (key on and 12+ volts at the coil ignition key side) use a coil that needs no external resistor. If it reads 5 to 7 volts. use a 12v coil that needs an external resistor. (none have resistors in them). Jim

 

[Nick Harrington]

thank you guys for the pointers! im going to try these things and get back to you on the results.

 

[Brownie450]

Just an idea here----do you have a compression tester?
If nothing else improves with replacing parts, try a compression
check on all cylinders. We had an old Massey 26 combine that
had a Chrysler industrial flathead 6 & it was acting up once. Took
the carb apart & cleaned all the passages. No more trouble.
We were ready to do a compression test, but Dad wanted the carb
checked out first. Good thing he put the brakes on the compression
thing.
Jim