4630 charging issue

Friends tractor I am trying to help out with

Not sure if this belong on this forum but looking for confirmation before I move forward. So, Ford 4630 Diesel not charging. Charge the battery every few weeks and she starts and runs fine. Checked power with the engine off and on and voltage is the same, like 12.6 VDC. Pretty good Battery will provide 20-30 Starts before needing recharged.

So my questions: before I pull the Alt is thee anything else in the system like a regulator or rectifier that I need to check???
And are these Alts a good rebuild candidate or should I buy new?
 
HiYa Whisker-
Does your GEN or ALT have a fan belt tensioner attached? If not, you will never charge the battery without proper fan belt tension. It sounds like you have a weak or
dead battery. A trickle charger just isnt going to fix that. A trickle charger if left unattended will boil out the battery. Once you boil out the electrolyte, you
cant just add more it doesnt work that way. Get the battery tested at a trusty, local shop.

You need a strong battery to:

1. Spin the starter
2. Engage the Bendix
3. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition. If your starter
pulls the battery down only a few volts, it will not fire the ignition system. It doesn't really matter much if the battery is fully charged until you test it
correctly. Bench testing under load at a shop and specific gravity can be tested as well. Your trusty local starter/alternator shop can bench test it on their special
machine, usually at no charge no pun intended. No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged.

Simply connecting your basic trickle charger will not do much, if anything, when the battery loses or has lost its specific gravity. The worse thing that kills battery
life is the constant charging and discharging on the lead plates. Your local shop guy has a special testing machine for the battery and can tell in a minute if it will
sustain a charge under load or not. Specific Gravity must be met. Read about it in the ELECTRICAL Chapter in your Owner's/Operator's Manual and I&T FO-47 Manual.
Specific Gravity can be tested with an HYDROMETER. It is a hand held device resembling a large hypodermic needle only has bulb with a half dozen small colored balls in
a solution of Acetone. You pull a cap on battery and take a sample of liquid with it. The included chart tells the results. Some auto parts stores sell them right on
their counter. I prefer the shop machine method of testing as it will tell a lot more.

If the battery tests bad, wont charge, sustain a charge under load, invest in a new one. Briefly in a nutshell, you want a GP-25 or GRP-35 12V AG battery -no Deep
Cycle or RV/Gold cart type. I suggest you invest in one of the better brands like DEKA, INTERSTATE, EAST PENN/DURACELL, or EXIDE. Most of the cheaper, bargain house
brands are not worth the time or money as they have poor lifespans. Two years or less has been my experience. 7-10 years on a good brand. Get at least a 550 - 650
CCA.

The best thing you can do to prolong a battery is also invest in a float charger. A float charger is helpful; not a trickle charger, but a float charger, like the
DELTRAN Battery Tender a well tested and proved. A battery charger, even a trickle charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery. I use float
chargers for two reasons: battery longevity and a sure start. Battery sulfation occurs at a specific rate at X temperature. Over time, sulfation reduces battery
performance and eventually its effects are irreversible. Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a
12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate current.
Using a float charger significantly reduces sulfation. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its
power when the temperature falls below zero. A fully charged battery will not freeze until -76F; however, a fully discharged battery can start to freeze at 32F. So
keep the battery fully charged! If you have a digital volt meter, 6.03 volts on a 6 volt battery and 12.06 volts on a 12 volt battery is only a 25% charge!

TESTING BATTERY ELECTROLYTE FOR SPECIFIC GRAVITY:
AR8SoLCl.jpg

Tim Daley(MI)
 
Thanks for the reply Tim but I am fairly certain the Battery is fine. When charged up it will start the tractor daily for 2-3 weeks. But when running there is no electricity going into the battery. I will check the belt tension.

This post was edited by Whiskerfish on 09/08/2022 at 03:39 am.
 
There may or may not be a battery temperature sensor on that. If there is, I believe unplugging it and putting a jumper in the
tractor end of the harness will eliminate it. Beyond that... if the belt is reasonably tight, it's a pretty good bet that the
alternator needs a rebuild.... ie. new slip rings, rectifier and regulator and bearings. Those MAgnetti's are not that expensive
to buy, brand new... if you go through a starter/alternator shop.

Rod
 
There were different alternator options for the 30-series during the years. Do you know the year of make?
Alternators may have been swapped, could you post a picture of it?

Battery temperature sensor has been mentioned. A "button" in the battery tray (see picture) is the sensor. You can not bypass it with a jumper wire in order to make the alternator work. For testing purpose, you can substitute it with a 205 Ohm resistor. But first, check the wiring for it.


mvphoto96958.jpg


This post was edited by Hacke on 09/08/2022 at 05:00 am.
 
From the Data Plate the Tractor Number is BD13821
Model is DY414C

I do not see a year manufactured but I think 93

This thing has a bucket on the front so access is very limited. There is a red wire toward the inside edge of the battery with a connector on the end that is not hooked to anything. Would that be the one for the thermo sensor?

This post was edited by Whiskerfish on 09/08/2022 at 07:42 am.
 
Okay found a wiring diagram from a previous question I posted here. Looks like the Temp sensor is a 2 wire system so not the red wire I see loose near the battery. Will investigate that further, and check out the thermo sensor.
 
(quoted from post at 11:21:02 09/08/22) Okay found a wiring diagram from a previous question I posted here. Looks like the Temp sensor is a 2 wire system so not the red wire I see loose near the battery. Will investigate that further, and check out the thermo sensor.
img]https://i.imgur.com/y05fEWY.jpg[/img]
 

The serial number BD13821 is from 1992, according to Tractordata.com:
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/005/9/4/5945-ford-4630.html

That should mean that you have a Lucas A127 type alternator, badged Magneti Marelli (Fiat you know...). I put a piece of a service manual here (this URL is not allowed to be hotlinked, according to forum rules. Copy+Paste instead):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhtx2xg9esrc4oq/ford-new-holland_10-30-%20series_workshop_sec_wat_839_861.pdf?dl=0

Here is another thread about that alternator (Same problem, Copy+Paste):
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1335048&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
 

Awesome. I will get to those in a few minutes.

I can not get any power reading from the temp sensor wire on the alt. Problem is with the bucket lift arms in the way I can not slide the battery tray out far enough to access the sensor. will try and post a pic of the alt from my phone if I can
 

You could attach a resistor at the alternator, instead of the sensor, between battery (+) and the lug for the battery sensor. 205 Ohm resistors are usually not that fill the shelves in most homes. If you have a potentiometer, you can use that together with an Ohmmeter to produce something in the range of 200 Ohm. If the alternator then charges, you know the battery sensor, or its wiring, is the culprit.
Diagram (if my assumptions about alternator type is correct):

mvphoto96966.jpg
 
Two brown wires, one with green tracer and the other with yellow. Neither read any power with key on or off or tractor running. Reads batter power at the big wire under the boot at about the 2 o'clock position.
mvphoto96967.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 15:10:29 09/08/22)
You could attach a resistor at the alternator, instead of the sensor, between battery (+) and the lug for the battery sensor. 205 Ohm resistors are usually not that fill the shelves in most homes. If you have a potentiometer, you can use that together with an Ohmmeter to produce something in the range of 200 Ohm. If the alternator then charges, you know the battery sensor, or its wiring, is the culprit.
Diagram (if my assumptions about alternator type is correct):

snip

Pretty sure that is what I am going to end up doing. Just need to source the parts.
 
(quoted from post at 13:38:19 09/08/22)
Awesome. I will get to those in a few minutes.

I can not get any power reading from the temp sensor wire on the alt. Problem is with the bucket lift arms in the way I can not slide the battery tray out far enough to access the sensor. will try and post a pic of the alt from my phone if I can

"I can not get any power reading from the temp sensor wire on the alt. " Don't expect to unless the other batt temp sensor ids getting battery power. Maybe? the red wire that isn't connected.
 
First, yes it is an A127 type alternator.

You can not be sure about the wire colours, but one goes to the charging warning light, and the other goes to the battery temp sensor.

According to Mr. Lucas' colour coding, the Brown/Yellow is for the charging warning light. That should have about +12V when it is disconnected and the key is in ON-position, engine off. If not, the charging warning bulb, or the wiring is bad. If you ground the end, the light should glow, but first, make sure that it is the wire that goes to the charging warning light.

Measure the resistance to battery (+) for the two wires, then you know if there is an open circuit, or short, in any of them.
 
(quoted from post at 15:37:04 09/08/22)
(quoted from post at 13:38:19 09/08/22)
Awesome. I will get to those in a few minutes.

I can not get any power reading from the temp sensor wire on the alt. Problem is with the bucket lift arms in the way I can not slide the battery tray out far enough to access the sensor. will try and post a pic of the alt from my phone if I can

"I can not get any power reading from the temp sensor wire on the alt. " Don't expect to unless the other batt temp sensor ids getting battery power. Maybe? the red wire that isn't connected.

I could see the wires for the temp sensor run in a conduit under the battery tray back toward the drivers seat. The lone loose red wire was at the front of the battery and was too short to connect to anything I could see. It did have a terminal on it but nowhere I could see to connect.

This post was edited by Whiskerfish on 09/08/2022 at 12:04 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 15:56:47 09/08/22) First, yes it is an A127 type alternator.

You can not be sure about the wire colours, but one goes to the charging warning light, and the other goes to the battery temp sensor.

According to Mr. Lucas' colour coding, the Brown/Yellow is for the charging warning light. That should have about +12V when it is disconnected and the key is in ON-position, engine off. If not, the charging warning bulb, or the wiring is bad. If you ground the end, the light should glow, but first, make sure that it is the wire that goes to the charging warning light.

Measure the resistance to battery (+) for the two wires, then you know if there is an open circuit, or short, in any of them.

The charge warning light has never worked. At least since he bought this about 10 years ago. I understand that it is not a proper fix but if I bypass the temp sensor with a 205 ohm resistor will that work long term? Also anyone have any idea how much wattage the resistor needs to be rated for?
 
You need the bulb to make the alternator work properly, unless it is replaced by a resistor or something. Since you have "no power" at the end of the wire, I suspect you have an open circuit. The alternator can function properly, due to residual magnetism, but not always. Fix the bulb.

mvphoto96969.jpg




If you read the other thread I linked to, there is a discussion regarding a constant resistance resistor instead of the battery temp sensor. The effect of a fixed resistance would result in too low charging at low temperature, and too high charging in high temperature. That would shorten the battery life, but to what extent, I do not know.

*** Edit
It would also result in a battery not charged enough at low temperatures. Could be a problem at starts.
***

This post was edited by Hacke on 09/08/2022 at 12:37 pm.
 
Afraid you were going to say that :D :D

Chasing wires on this thing is near to impossible with the front bucket arms in the way To gain access to the bulb I can just unscrew the 4 Phillips of the indicator cluster?
Pretty sure the only light I have ever seen work is for the glow plugs

This post was edited by Whiskerfish on 09/08/2022 at 12:41 pm.
 

I am not sure what it is like on your tractor, the instruments were changed during the years and cab/no cab, but when you say four Phillips screws for a cluster I think you will find the bulb on the backside of that cluster.

You could run a wire with a bulb outside the tractor, for testing purpose. Battery (+) -> bulb -> warning light lug on alternator. I am not sure, but a 2-3 W bulb should be sufficient.
 
(quoted from post at 15:56:47 09/08/22) First, SNIP
That should have about +12V when it is disconnected and the key is in ON-position, engine off. If not, the charging warning bulb, or the wiring is bad. If you ground the end, the light should glow, but first, make sure that it is the wire that goes to the charging warning light.
SNIP

Not sure I got this right, should the Alt terminal have the 12 volts or the wire??
 
The Brown/Yellow wire's end/connector in your picture, if that wire goes to the charging warning bulb.

If the bulb and wiring is OK, a digital multimeter should show about +12 V to ground, at least something else than "no power" which I suppose is 0 V.
 

Okay. I just pulled the instrument cluster and there is a brown and yellow chase wire going to a light bulb but the green wire that I presume provides the power to it is mouse eaten through. I checked all the wires in the instrument panel and nothing has any power. So that is next.

When the owner gives me a minute I will drag him out there and do a resistance check on the brown yellow wire.
 

Fixed the rats nest of wiring and now I have a charge light. So that is good. The Resistor will be delivered tomorrow hopefully and I can work on that next.
 
ALL FIXED!!

Wired in the 220 ohm resistor to the thermo sensor plug on the alternator and now have a lovely 14.5 at idle. Ran it up to about 1500 rpm and it surged for a second then settled back at 14.5

Very happy

[size=18:36d8afaf81]THANK YOU ALL!!!! Would never have figured this out without your help!! [/size:36d8afaf81]
 
Great news!

As I said, I do not know if there will be problems in the long run with the constant resistance. If you find that the battery is not properly charged in cold weather, or the charging voltage is 15 V or over on a hot day, you should do something about it.

The proper thing to do is, of course, to get the temperature sensor in order. It could be so simple as a wiring fault. If you find that the sensor itself is shot, you have two alternatives:

1. Bite the bullet and buy a new sensor.
2. Get a standard regulator for the alternator. This will not need the sensing wire at all, and you can forget about the temperature sensor altogether.
 

I really doubt it is going to be an issue. I restore old Goldwings and 14.5 is a dream for most of them. It was a rainy and cool morning so the temp was only about 70. I will check it again on a hot day when I come back down in a few weeks. Anything has to be better than only charging it monthly when it is dead.

Again many thanks
 

OK, just check the electrolyte level now and then.

If, in the future, the brushes get worn out or the regulator falls asleep, I would consider a standard regulator.
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top