464 loader problems

[ufdaland]

Working on a 464 IH . Trying to mount a Loader. Hydraulic lines are behind seat and I don't know which one is to or from the loader. The way I have them connected results in no movement . I recently replaced the filter and the dip stick shows full. I have tried to lift for several minutes with no results . My next try is to reverse the hose connections. Any suggestions?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Show a picture of your connection. If you have it plugged into the remotes, the remote valve will have to be blocked open in some fashion to circulate the oil through the loader valve.

 

[used red MN]

I agree with Fritz a photo would be very helpful. Most loaders require 4 hoses for operation, two for the main lift frame cylinders a lift and a lower, two for the bucket a curl up and a dump. Unless the loader is a trip loader which would then only require two. If you you have a hydraulic bucket and only have two then you must have a separate valve for the loader and the stock remote lever will need to be kept in position to operate it. If you have power steering and it is working then more than likely your hydraulic system is working.

 

[ufdaland]

I have not been able to send a picture, but will try the suggestion of cracking one line to allow the air to escape. This tractor does not have a front pump. the trans oil and hydraulic oil are the same and the only hydraulic couplings are in the rear on the right side. I think my problem is how to purge the air. Thanks for the help

 

[used red MN]

I have not been able to send a picture, but will try the suggestion of cracking one line to allow the air to escape. This tractor does not have a front pump. the trans oil and hydraulic oil are the same and the only hydraulic couplings are in the rear on the right side. I think my problem is how to purge the air. Thanks for the help

I doubt air is your problem. Hydraulic oil under nearly 2000psi squeezes air down to a very small volume and it aerates into the oil as tiny bubbles and gets moved on through.
How do you take your photos and what method of posting them are you using? The “Attach files” button should let you browse/find the folder on your computer or device. Try posting only one picture in a reply.
With the loader hoses unplugged does the hydraulics on the tractor put a load on the engine when you move the remote lever and “dead head” the remote, in other word try to force hydraulic pressure/flow to somewhere that has no place for it to go?

 

[ufdaland]

I doubt air is your problem. Hydraulic oil under nearly 2000psi squeezes air down to a very small volume and it aerates into the oil as tiny bubbles and gets moved on through.
How do you take your photos and what method of posting them are you using? The “Attach files” button should let you browse/find the folder on your computer or device. Try posting only one picture in a reply.
With the loader hoses unplugged does the hydraulics on the tractor put a load on the engine when you move the remote lever and “dead head” the remote, in other word try to force hydraulic pressure/flow to somewhere that has no place for it to go?

Thanks for your reply. I have had this loader on this tractor before without this problem but have added some hose to reroute it so know there is air in the system. the valve block has one of the hose outlets marked tank. That is the only hint at routing, but I don't remember how the hoses should be connected to the tractor. I have tried both ways to no avail.
I have a picture in my phone of the connection but cant get it to the computer. I think the cable between the phone and computer needs replacing.
I have tried revering the lines , that didn't have any effect.

 

[used red MN]

Thanks for your reply. I have had this loader on this tractor before without this problem but have added some hose to reroute it so know there is air in the system. the valve block has one of the hose outlets marked tank. That is the only hint at routing, but I don't remember how the hoses should be connected to the tractor. I have tried both ways to no avail.
I have a picture in my phone of the connection but cant get it to the computer. I think the cable between the phone and computer needs replacing.
I have tried revering the lines , that didn't have any effect.

Let’s try to clear this up by working through it one or two questions at a time.
1) Are connecting it to the factory hydraulic remote connections on the tractor?
2) Did you try the loader by placing the tractors stock remote lever by the seat in both of the directions it can operate? Probably forward and back? You also have to make sure the tractor remote lever stays in position and does not pop back to center.
With the old guys on here you never know, I assume it is not a smart phone? A smart phone can also access YT and you can post it from there. Can you text the picture to someone?

 

[ufdaland]

First some back ground, I'm 92, Can't hear worth beans, so seldom use a cell phone but I have owned and maintained machinery from tractors , dozers, loaders, cranes, graders, eta so have some idea what is involved but this time I'm missing something . Thanks for the help.
You mentioned the tractor stock remote lever, that may be the problem. I did not know what that was for and will try moving that lever. I proceed with fingers crossed.

 

[ufdaland]

Well, That was the problem. I move the lever and wallah I'm in business. Thanks a bunch . Still learning at 92.

 

[used red MN]

Well, That was the problem. I move the lever and wallah I'm in business. Thanks a bunch . Still learning at 92.

Glad that worked even though I think there was a misunderstanding. I think you may have moved the 3 point hitch lever. If it was down in the “run” area that disables the remotes, or at least it does on some of the larger frame tractors. I hope I can still be doing stuff with tractors at 92, 30 years behind you.

 

[ufdaland]

Up Date. The lever to the right of the seat was in a position that prevented oil flow to the loader. When this was in the right position the loader gets oil. By some trial and error, I think I know where the lever should be to operate the loader. I found that the valve was leaking. I was using a 3 spool valve I happened to have and found there was some leakage so removed the center spool. After assembly it leaked from the end caps so made new gaskets. It now is together with no leaks. The loader goes up and down and the bucket dumps as it should. But the loader will only lift about one slim lady. So it's back to the drawing board. Thanks for all your help.

 

[ufdaland]

Well, I'm still at it. I have cured most of the leaks but it looks like there is some leakage between the 2 spools. the lift spool slowly creeps out as the loader is operated. I have another 2 spool valve that I will try. This may take a while.

 

[Mcrafty1]

I'm only a few years behind you but....if there's anything I've learned it's that we are all students working our way through life, that and there's a lot I haven't learned yet. I can't help you with your loader problem but someone will be along eventually here with the answer to your problem.

 

[ufdaland]

I replaced the o rings between the sections of the valve in the hope of stopping the leaks, but have decided that this will still leave me with a loader that is powered thru the hydraulic connections behind the seat instead of thru a power beyond plate which I don't have and that didn't have the lift power I would want. I have decided to look for a power take off pump. That brings me to another question. I will have to make a reservoir in the return line but will I need a vent in that line. it seems like I would .

 

[Fritz Maurer]

You don't want a vent tee'd into a return line..that's what I gathered you are talking about.
You want a vent in the main reservoir or anywhere else in the system where there is a quiet pool of oil to give the air a chance to separate from the oil . If there is too much turbulence, the air does not have enough time to separate and may carry oil with it as it rushes toward the vent.

 

[used red MN]

You don't want a vent tee'd into a return line..that's what I gathered you are talking about.
You want a vent in the main reservoir or anywhere else in the system where there is a quiet pool of oil to give the air a chance to separate from the oil . If there is too much turbulence, the air does not have enough time to separate and may carry oil with it as it rushes toward the vent.

Also if you are thinking about using the tractor rear end as the reservoir and possibly add a second reservoir this will probably not work out to well. The reservoir oil level would have to match the level in the rear end housing. And as Fritz has said the only vent you want is on the reservoir. Sure would be nice to see photos of what you have going on there. Your hydraulic pump on your tractor would have to be totally shot to not be able to make enough pressure to give a loader satisfactory lift capabilities. Not saying it can’t be.

 

[ufdaland]

My plan was to make a reservoir of three feet of 3 inch pipe mounted to the under side of the right rear fender, running the pressure line though the reservoir [not into] and the return line into and out of the reservoir with a fill pipe coming out of the top of the reservoir. The top of the fender is curved so the pipe should fit nicely with room
between the fender and tire. I'm wondering about a fill pipe coming out of the reservoir with a capped top and a vent hole in the top. Is that a plan or what?

 

[JimB2]

On an IH 464, if the pump in behind the filter is in good condition, with a hydraulic pressure gauge in one of the rear remote outlets a 1800 RPM, the pressure should be between 2,000 to 2,500 PSI. If it is a lot lower than this either the main relief valve in the MCV is weak or the hydraulic pump is worn. Also check the hydraulic valves for the loader if they have an inbuild relief valve that could be weak as well. On an IH 464 with a good hydraulic system with a good loader should lift enough to lift the rear wheels off the ground.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

My plan was to make a reservoir of three feet of 3 inch pipe mounted to the under side of the right rear fender, running the pressure line though the reservoir [not into] and the return line into and out of the reservoir with a fill pipe coming out of the top of the reservoir. The top of the fender is curved so the pipe should fit nicely with room
between the fender and tire. I'm wondering about a fill pipe coming out of the reservoir with a capped top and a vent hole in the top. Is that a plan or what?

The capacity of a 3" pipe, 36" long is only a little over 1 gallon. You will run out of oil just raising the loader, and the oil will quickly get hot from being circulated by a PTO pump which can circulate 15 gallons per minute or more.

 

[Jim.ME]

While a reservoir can be somewhat smaller, a gallon of oil in the reservoir for each gallon per minute the pump is rated for is a common recommendation. For example, an 18 gpm pump should have an18 gallon reserve of oil in the reservoir. The reservoir would need to be larger than 18 gallons to allow for expansion. Adding a cooler/heat exchanger can reduce reservoir size but add something that needs maintenance and can be damaged. In any case, your pipe size would be way too small.