484 hyd/slipping issue

[T484]

I have an early 80s IH 484. I started having PTO issues then shortly after steering got stiff and transmission started slipping in drive. I found a rubber bushing in the frame between the two compartments deteriorating, which I believe had clogged the transfer pump screen that eventually wore out the main hydraulic pump. I repaired and replace the pump. I now have PTO, steering, and lift, however, it is still slipping. What did I miss? Did the clutch go bad at the same time?

 

[used red MN]

Hello T484, welcome to YT! You said, “I started having PTO issues” there is your clue, probably smoked the clutches when the hydraulic oil application pressure was low, #39 in the link. CNHI IH 484 parts catalog There are probably other places to get replacements cheaper, like from YT, YT IH484 PTO clutch kit

 

[T484]

I may have not been specific enough. The slipping is in forward and reverse high and low, not the pto. So will the pto clutch create a drive slip? What does the hydraulic pressure do to affect the drive gears?

 

[used red MN]

Normally I would tell you to check the clutch free play, but I know some models of these tractor have a no free play clutch. I am not familiar with these. If it has no pedal free play I would at least try to raise the clutch pedal from its resting position. If the lever on the shaft that the linkage connects to that goes in the tractor will not move a bit the opposite direction from what it normally does when the clutch is pushed I would need to check to see how that all works. If the shaft doesn’t move backwards I would be concerned that the throwout bearing is holding the clutch partly released, this can happen as a clutch wears. There is a guy on here that posts as Barnyardengineering, hopefully he will chime in he is knowledgeable on these machines. He may not be around until his normal Monday morning check in.

 

[T484]

Normally I would tell you to check the clutch free play, but I know some models of these tractor have a no free play clutch. I am not familiar with these. If it has no pedal free play I would at least try to raise the clutch pedal from its resting position. If the lever on the shaft that the linkage connects to that goes in the tractor will not move a bit the opposite direction from what it normally does when the clutch is pushed I would need to check to see how that all works. If the shaft doesn’t move backwards I would be concerned that the throwout bearing is holding the clutch partly released, this can happen as a clutch wears. There is a guy on here that posts as Barnyardengineering, hopefully he will chime in he is knowledgeable on these machines. He may not be around until his normal Monday morning check in.

The clutch pedal feels good like it’s engaging properly, but I have not checked the reverse play. I will do that.

 

[RedMVa]

The clutch pedal feels good like it’s engaging properly, but I have not checked the reverse play. I will do that.

Yes the throw out bearing needs free play, sounds like you definitely need clutch adjustment. What I’ve been seeing lately on these tractors is the pressure plates are giving up before the clutch and that is causing clutch slippage.

 

[Janicholson]

The clutch pedal feels good like it’s engaging properly, but I have not checked the reverse play. I will do that.

The pedal should go down about 3/4" to an inch before it becomes difficult to push. if it is the same from the start of movement adjustmant might just fix the issue. Jim

 

[used red MN]

The clutch pedal feels good like it’s engaging properly, but I have not checked the reverse play. I will do that.

RedMVA and JAN, what are your thoughts on the Service Bulletin as stated by Dale Kite in his own reply to this older YT post? TSB on 484 no free play clutch
Red do you have the newer models of this configuration of tractor? I would prefer not to give the OP incorrect information.

 

[Janicholson]

RedMVA and JAN, what are your thoughts on the Service Bulletin as stated by Dale Kite in this older YT post? TSB on 484 no free play clutch
Red do you have the newer models of this configuration of tractor? I would prefer not to give the OP incorrect information.

I have no idea! but if he can adjust a bit of freeplay, and it still slips it is definitive of needing a clutch Kit. Jim

 

[RedMVa]

Ok

RedMVA and JAN, what are your thoughts on the Service Bulletin as stated by Dale Kite in his own reply to this older YT post? TSB on 484 no free play clutch
Red do you have the newer models of this configuration of tractor? I would prefer not to give the OP incorrect information.

I read that and I’ve never seen the non Adjustable throwout bearing. I’ve done 454’s, 74 series, a few 84 series and the 85 series, have not done any 95 series which another poster in that thread said the non adjustable was in 695 and up. I doubt very seriously if it was in any 84 series “except “ maybe a cab tractor but I’d have to look into that, all I can say is I’ve never seen one.

 

[JimB2]

Hello, that was an old post that was referenced and I was username JB then, I had to create a new username of JB2 as somehow many years ago my username credentials got corrupted and the simple solution was create a new username, hence JB2.
Now for your 484, does it have a T/A, (level on left of steering column just like the throttle lever) that allows you to shift from HI to LO on the go?
If it has a T/A it is very difficult to determine if it is the main clutch slipping or the HI clutch on the T/A that is hydraulically activated. It should not slip in LO T/A unless the sprag clutch/bearing is failing.

Now my experiences with my brother's five IH/CIH Doncaster tractors, 454, 474, 684, 495, 3230. The 454, 474, 684 all had the old style clutch release bearing that did not ride on the pressure plate fingers when the clutch was engaged and the clutch pedal was held up by a spring connected to a support under the dash area. I don't have have any experience on the IH 85 Series tractors but according to Caseih.com parts it uses the old style release bearing p/n 158125C92 same as 84 series. The 495 had the new style release bearing p/n 85104C92 that contacts the pressure plate fingers all the time. My brother bought the 495 with 2250 Quick Attach loader new in 1991 and it was used daily to feed silage and the release bearing only lasted about 2 years and the CIH mechanic suggested we install the old style release bearing and put a return spring back on the clutch pedal.
The mechanic said that CIH was experiencing several early failures on the new style release bearing. Going forward early 2000 he buys a CIH 3230 and we transfer the 2250 loader from 495 to 3230 and the clutch last about 5,000 Hrs and the failure wasn't the clutch but one of the adjustment screws on the pressure plate fingers backed off and we had to split the tractor to fix, so did a complete clutch job when it was split.
See photo below from Caseih.com parts for 3230 clutch, release bearing item #2 p/n 85104C92, new style bearing and thrust washer item #28 p/n 1970876C3 is the new improvement over the 95 Series clutches. This thrust washer is some kind of hard plastic and locks into the fingers on the pressure plate, and protects the fingers from metal to metal contact with the release bearing. My opinion is the latest design clutch release bearing turning all the time and the thrust washer is a major improvement.
CIH now wats to sell you a clutch replacement kit with clutch disk, pressure plate and the two bearings for about $500 CND that has all the parts included.
The new style release bearing p/n 85104C92 is about $85.00 CND as opposed to the old style at $20.00 CND.

I also agree with a previous post where the spring on the pressure plate appear to lose there strength. Also important to have the flywheel step at the proper measurement.

Does your 484 have a T/A?

 

[T484]

Hello, that was an old post that was referenced and I was username JB then, I had to create a new username of JB2 as somehow many years ago my username credentials got corrupted and the simple solution was create a new username, hence JB2.
Now for your 484, does it have a T/A, (level on left of steering column just like the throttle lever) that allows you to shift from HI to LO on the go?
If it has a T/A it is very difficult to determine if it is the main clutch slipping or the HI clutch on the T/A that is hydraulically activated. It should not slip in LO T/A unless the sprag clutch/bearing is failing.

Now my experiences with my brother's five IH/CIH Doncaster tractors, 454, 474, 684, 495, 3230. The 454, 474, 684 all had the old style clutch release bearing that did not ride on the pressure plate fingers when the clutch was engaged and the clutch pedal was held up by a spring connected to a support under the dash area. I don't have have any experience on the IH 85 Series tractors but according to Caseih.com parts it uses the old style release bearing p/n 158125C92 same as 84 series. The 495 had the new style release bearing p/n 85104C92 that contacts the pressure plate fingers all the time. My brother bought the 495 with 2250 Quick Attach loader new in 1991 and it was used daily to feed silage and the release bearing only lasted about 2 years and the CIH mechanic suggested we install the old style release bearing and put a return spring back on the clutch pedal.
The mechanic said that CIH was experiencing several early failures on the new style release bearing. Going forward early 2000 he buys a CIH 3230 and we transfer the 2250 loader from 495 to 3230 and the clutch last about 5,000 Hrs and the failure wasn't the clutch but one of the adjustment screws on the pressure plate fingers backed off and we had to split the tractor to fix, so did a complete clutch job when it was split.
See photo below from Caseih.com parts for 3230 clutch, release bearing item #2 p/n 85104C92, new style bearing and thrust washer item #28 p/n 1970876C3 is the new improvement over the 95 Series clutches. This thrust washer is some kind of hard plastic and locks into the fingers on the pressure plate, and protects the fingers from metal to metal contact with the release bearing. My opinion is the latest design clutch release bearing turning all the time and the thrust washer is a major improvement.
CIH now wats to sell you a clutch replacement kit with clutch disk, pressure plate and the two bearings for about $500 CND that has all the parts included.
The new style release bearing p/n 85104C92 is about $85.00 CND as opposed to the old style at $20.00 CND.

I also agree with a previous post where the spring on the pressure plate appear to lose there strength. Also important to have the flywheel step at the proper measurement.

Does your 484 have a T/A?View attachment 69041




View attachment 69041

No lever on left, just hole. Clutch pedal has about 1” of play before engaging and self returns to stop with spring which is about 1/16” above complete disengagement. So it seems ill be splitting and replacing.?.?

Thanks everyone for the response

 

[JimB2]

If it is the original clutch it probably is only a 4 pad clutch, replace the clutch with one for a 684 with more pads on it.