5010 vs 1206 question...

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Just when you thing I'm up to starting a color battle.... well I hate to let the air out of your sails. I'm not. :vD Just curious as to why the 1206 seems to be valued higher than a 5010? I'm under the impression that green paint automatically draws top dollar. Even with the over inflated prices on Tractorhouse, the 1206 is bringing a couple thousand more. At least in asking price. Don't currently have auction prices to go on, as I've just noticed this.

Mike

 

[Johnson 23]

A good well maintained took care of low hour 1206 with 1 owner brings a premium they dont make them anymore i have run them they are a good tractor not much they can't do i used to work on a farm i worked there for 10 years that farm had a 706 , 806 and a 1206 those were the 3 main tractors they never really broke down i drove and used all 3 of them great tractors the last year i worked there my boss bought a 4430 and a 5010 he said they were okay tractors but burned way more fuel the 4430 burns 5 gallons just cranking it that is what dealer told him when he got it new 4430 and the 5010 were mainly used for tillage 4430 on a disc 5010 on a chisel

The only trouble with the 5010 was the rear main seal went out defective and injector pump was defective both failed when new the dealer fixed both later on the transmission failed tractor had 500 yours after dealer fixed that he sold

4430 was sold when only 2 years old with 750 hours on it just burned WAY to much fuel to have

The funny thing to me was this the 706 , 806 , 1206 all used less fuel than the 2 jd the farm is still running and going strong the 3 farmalk are still there , he also has bought a super m , super h , oliver 1550 he said still these 6 tractors burn less fuel than those 2 jd did

 

[SVcummins]

You should that to Jon f as todays funny. We had 3 4430 and they were good on fuel . Kinda sounds like someone never even sat foot in either of those tractors did they ? Let me guess parrs costs 5 times as much too?

 

[SVcummins]

 

[SVcummins]

Even the 5010 beat your red fiat

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Aaaaaack! I thought my gasser 806 poured fuel on the ground. The 5010 & 4430 made a waterfall out of it. I do understand the 806 is not in the same power class.... but still..... yikes! Makes me feel very fortunate that I don't need anything that big. There would be a lot of tears in those fuel tanks. ;v) :vD

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Interesting. My 806 is not in the same power class, but burns a lot less gas than the tractors you've listed.... & they're diesel. I'll have to research this further.

Mike

 

[SVcummins]

An 806 has roughly 30 less horsepower

 

[SVcummins]

You do realize a tractor with more power than one with Less ? Compare the numbers the 806 wasnt that much better than the 125 horsepower tractors

 

[Johnny Farmer]

I never worried about fuel use per hour, it was how much fuel used per acre.

 

[GreenEnvy]

The reason 1206s bring top dollar is because they have a cult like following for good reason. A good comparison would be the JD 6030. Plus, 1206s have a place in history because they were the first 100+ hp turboed tractor on the market and started the trend of offering a high horsepower package in a compact row crop chassis. Thats something that took JD awhile to figure out. Also, 18.4/38 tire was developed for the 1206 because during testing they kept spinning the rims using existing tires at the time.

Far as the field performance goes, a 1206 wasnt too far off from a 5010 on advertised hp and with the turboed engine, the 1206 can out work a 5010 because most 1206s put out more then their rated hp and if they didnt you could turn them up. Hard to do that with a naturally aspirated engine on the 5010. Not only that 5010 was underpowered for its size. But the 1206 and 5010 were only on the market for a year or less. The 1206 was introduced in 1965 and the 5020 was introduced in the fall of 1965. I dont have a 1206 but do have a 1256 wheat land which BTW doesnt have a 3 point. I like it because I get all of the benefits of the 1206 for far less money then a 1206.

 

[MikeJM]

My dad always complains our 4430 uses a lot of fuel, mind you all he does is use it for everything, I told him it wont burn any fuel if you leave it parked.

The Nebraska test lists HP-hr per gallon which is a measurement of how efficiently an engine produces horsepower.
The 1206 edges out the 4430 slightly in efficiently making power.
Compression ratio 17:1 vs 14.7:1, Rossamaster pump with variable timing vs fixed timing on the inline Bosch pump.
The DT361 in the 1206 was really put together well. I just did a cylinder head on one. The back of the intake valve is polished from the factory, valve stem is undercut, all those little things that contribute towards making efficient power. Some of the other engine design points, not so great if you dont have the proper tools to work on them.

 

[NY 986]

Obsession with a model may or may not be rooted in logic. Usually, guys pick a model with low production numbers so they can say that they have one but most of the community does not. I'll agree that IH was further ahead in the race for power versus weight in above 100 HP but the industry closed the gap in less than a decade. There are plenty of guys who normally would not give an AC a look but get giddy over a D21. Regardless, there is a reason that any dealer I saw regardless of color had a parts department and repair shop. And it was not to change plow shares for customers who could afford gold watches.

 

[NoDakInMN]

I would venture that the 1206 brings higher money because it's low production numbers make it more desirable from a collectors standpoint. 1,289 of the 1206s were built compared to 7,553 for the 5010.

Same reasoning as why a 830 brings so much more than an R.

 

[GreenEnvy]

They made around 10,000 1206s. The numbers you posted
are just for the wheat land models. And Im pretty sure they
only made around 5,000 5010s. Either way there was more
1206s made then 5010s.

 

[NY 986]

I thought that the AC D21 was the first turbocharged farm tractor over 100 PTO HP.

 

[GreenEnvy]

D21s came out in 1963 and didnt have the turbo to start with. They received the turbo same year the 1206 hit the market. Plus the 1206 was basically an 806 on steroids which like i said earlier, high hp in an nice compact row crop chassis were as the D-21 was built more along the lines of the 5010 not really thought as a row crop tractor first.

 

[Johnson 23]

4430 just burned to much fuel

 

[Johnson 23]

Sv Cummins and others

READ THIS

https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/44878-why-does-a-4430-use-more-fuel-then-the-comparible-ih/

 

[GreenEnvy]

So who cares??? IH built a very good engine and slightly better then JD but what IH surrounded that engine with was junk. Ill take fuel fuel hog 4430 with a SGB over a POS 1066 any day.

 

[rustred]

good, cause i will take the 1066!

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

That's interesting. I would not have figured the 5010 to be lower in production numbers vs the 1206. I suppose, there weren't a lot of farmers that had much use for a giant tractor back then.

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

"Obsession with a model may or may not be rooted in logic."

I wholeheartedly agree. People need to start obsessing over the lowly Farmall H so I can sell a couple of mine & actually make money. Seems logical to me anyhow. ;v)

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Did the turbo feature start with the Series II? I also, was under the impression that all the D21's had turbo.

Mike

 

[GreenEnvy]

I can look the actual numbers up tonight. I know it isnt 7,000 unless they count industrials or something like that. The 5020 did a lot better with about 15,000 sold. The interesting part is when JD introduced the row crop 5020, it outsold the wheat land 5020 just proving IH was right guessing rowcrop farmers wanted more hp.

 

[GreenEnvy]

Yes

 

[SHALER]

The 1206 was a very good tractor for many of the reasons others have mentioned here. It does have a good following from the collector market. What bears reiterating, and Greenenvy just touched on it, was the 5010, by most standards "was underpowered for its size". It was not a particularly popular tractor back in the day, and it has little to no appeal these days to the collector crowd.

 

[larryanderson]

I had a new 1206 in 1965 and have had probably 50 of them and actually have 3 in my shop right now.If tractors are pretty the 1206 color scheme tops them all.Not all but many 1206s are cold blooded,not the greatest shifting with stock set up,They tended to break the old style hubs and most have wedge style wheels.The 5010/20 due to no turbo and were heavy.Turbo charging woke them up.Not many were sold in our area.

 

[NoDakInMN]

(quoted from post at 11:03:08 02/27/21) They made around 10,000 1206s. The numbers you posted
are just for the wheat land models. And Im pretty sure they
only made around 5,000 5010s. Either way there was more
1206s made then 5010s.

My sources:

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/3/6/368-international-harvester-1206.html

Which lists a total production of 1,289.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/0/6/62-john-deere-5010.html

Which lists a total production of 7,553.

I am willing to accept that these numbers are in error, if you provide proper sourcing.

 

[Johnny Farmer]

The 1289 1206's under the international line were wheatlands and under the farmall line there were over 8000 built as row crops.

 

[fdt860]

Thats something that took JD awhile to figure out. Also, 18.4/38 tire was developed for the 1206 because during testing they kept spinning the rims using existing tires

I do not think Deere took a long time to figure things out:
1206 was just a little progress on their side for not being as retarded as they had been.
The 1206 came out in 1965.
The 4520 came out in 1968 and was the 5020 transmission and front axle strength with a 4020 turbo.
More tractor than a 1206, but sadly less engine.

24.5-32 came out with the 5010 in 1962.
The 5020 row crop came out in 1966, only one year after the 1206, and was first tractor with 20.8-38. Not sure se o, if 20.8-38 were offered in 1966.

So only 3 years. In comparison, it took IH 3 years to compete with the 4010, and 5 years to have a half decent cab to the Sg2, and 24 years to have a full Powershift... .

 

[GreenEnvy]

It took 5 years for JD to duplicate what IH did. And that was with the 4320. The 4520 missed the mark as it was still somewhat overweight/underpowered like the 5020. And JD themselves knew that. Want some proof?? Farmers wanted a juiced up 4020, not a detuned 5020.