52 8N starter always cranks

[Tracy L. Hansen]

I have a 52 8N tractor that has developed a problem. The starter cranks as soon as I hook up the batterey. I removed the lead to the starter and have been roll starting it. Bought a new starter, tried again, same problem. Could it be the push button switch?

 

[Plane Bart]

TO trouble shoot the problem I would check the Starter relay first. you can check the push button switch also by reading continuity through the switch, same for the starter relay.

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

Thanks for the response. I don't have a meter or know how to work one. I'll have to ask a neighbor.

 

[souNdguy]

considering the starter only gets power when the solenoid is energized I surely wouldn't have repalced the starter without checking the thumb switch, wire or solenoid. always better to troubleshoot vs throwing monety at a project first.

the thumb switch provides ground to the solenoid that is always hot from the battery.

the switch itself could be shorted internally, check with an ohm meter or test lamp. the wire may be chaffed and touching frame.. or the solenoid contacts could be welded.

I'd vote for the last 2 vs the first one. most thumb switch tend to fail open vs shorted.. but the reverse is possible for sure.

post back.

PS.. save that old starter as a spare now. it's probably fine...

let us know what you find and we can go from there and help you work thru the problem.

if it is the solenoid or the wire.. easy fix.. just make sure you get the correct 3 wire solenoid and orient it correctly toward the block.. and the wire is generic you can make up.. if it is the thumb switch, bruce and I wrote a good article on t he repalcement, for the N-news.. a great publication every ford owner should have.. it's a small job to pull the trans cover, R&R the switch and go back on with a 2$ gasket and be back going in half an hour.

soundguy

 

[R Geiger]

If your tractor has not been modified, the push button switch provides a ground to activate the starter solenoid witch closes the contacts to provide elect to the starter.
The solenoid is the round relay that is mounted to the top of the starter. It should have three wires terminal with 4 wires going to them. The two large ones are for the battery power in and out.
The small post facing the block is the switch post. Remove the wire going to the small terminal and see it is the same or not. If it still cranks with that wire removed then the starter solenoid is stuck closed. If it does not crank then either the switch is bad or the wire going to the switch is grounded somewhere.

 

[souNdguy]

test lamp will work.. clip to bat hot.. probe to switch.. if it lights up the lamp, remov ethe wire. if the lamp still lights with switch not pushed, switch is shorted. if it don;t light.. probe the wire.. if it lights, remove it from the solenoid , run a new one and re check. if that solves it you are done.. if not, remove the bat wire from the solenoid and the lil wire and probe the big terminal used to be connected to bat. if it lights.. solenoid is stuck closed.. and you are picking up ground thru the starter. repalce solenoid.

2 gator clip wires and a small lamp will work in place of a test lamp...

post back.. we will get you going..

this site sells the solenoid or start button, if needed.

wire you canmake up yourself with a couple ring terminals..e tc..

soudnguy

 

[Ronnie G]

Of course if you disconnect the wire from the push button and install the + lead to the battery, and the starter does not turn over, PROBLEM FOUND..

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

Again thanks for the responses. Neither the old starter or the new one have a solenoid on top of them. Could this be mounted under the dash? I will not be working on this tonight. Work three days on three off, tomorrow back to work.

 

[R Geiger]

Are you sure you have a 52 8n? Got picture? the 9n and 2n did not have the solenoid.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 21:37:45 05/10/11) Again thanks for the responses. Neither the old starter or the new one have a solenoid on top of them. Could this be mounted under the dash? I will not be working on this tonight. Work three days on three off, tomorrow back to work.

hould look similar to this. Are you sure you have a '52 N?

 

[souNdguy]

post a pic of your machine.

I bet you got a 52 8n engine in a 9n/2n chassie and a manual start switch!!

or it's not a 52 8n engine at all and the sell just didn't know.

this changes everything if it is a 9n/2n.

where does the big bat cable from the starter run.. to a 2 post connection on the back of the steering column? if so you got a 9n / 2n and a MANUAL start switch.. could still be welded contacts or a stuck plunger in the start switch.

soundguy

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

The serial numbers on the engine match up with those for an 8N but the cable from the starter does run up to the steering column. Sorry no pictures yet. Daughter home from college tomorrow, she will help with pictures.

 

[R Geiger]

Does it have athree speed or 4 speed trans?

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

3 speed.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 21:55:21 05/10/11) 3 speed.

uessers can guess till the cows come home unless what you have is known.

 

[souNdguy]

all the N engines swap and it is common to see 8n engines in 9n/2n or 9n/2n engiens in an 8n... unfortunately some sellers sell the tractor mis-identified because they don't know any better.

soudnguy

 

[R Geiger]

OK, you have an 8n engine in either a 9n or 2n. Mechanical starter switch near steering column. Switch may be stuck or the linkage may be. Out of my league. Only have 8ns.

 

[JMOR]

If your tractor does not have the solenoid as in the picture posted earlier, then it ought to have a manual start switch like one of these .....very likely the first, as age & quantity of tractors limit the likelihood of the last pictured.

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

Very similar to first picture you show. It has four posts coming off of it. The one on top has a wire from the positve side of the battery, a wire going to the ammeter, and a small jumper wire going to the second post down. The third post has the wire from the thumb starter button, and the fourth post is on the bottom with the lead going to the starter.

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

I must have been pretty sleepy. It is a four speed.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 19:14:15 05/12/11) Very similar to first picture you show. It has four posts coming off of it. The one on top has a wire from the positve side of the battery, a wire going to the ammeter, and a small jumper wire going to the second post down. The third post has the wire from the thumb starter button, and the fourth post is on the bottom with the lead going to the starter.

ounds like an isolated coil solenoid mounted off starter in a strange location....assuming you actually have an N tractor of one year or another. Maybe a Jube/NAA/Hundred series?? Flathead or overhead valve engine.

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

I have a two ford 8N manuals, everything in both matches up to my tractor. The serial number on the motor matches a 1952 8N. It is a flathead 4 cylinder with side mount distibutor and a twelve volt conversion that was done by the guy I bought it from 6 years ago.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:04:12 05/12/11) I have a two ford 8N manuals, everything in both matches up to my tractor. The serial number on the motor matches a 1952 8N. It is a flathead 4 cylinder with side mount distibutor and a twelve volt conversion that was done by the guy I bought it from 6 years ago.

verything matches up? What happened to the starter switch/solenoid mounted, not on the starter, but around the steering column...and that it has 4 terminals vs the normal 8N's 3 terminal solenoid mounted on the starter motor??? I'm puzzled by the posts in this thread??

 

[Tracy L. Hansen]

I have the Model 8N Ford Tractor operators manual 3729-50M, I also have the I & T Shop Service Ford Manual. When I said everything matches up I meant everything else but the solenoid. I didn't think I had to explain that part. I have just overhauled the whole motor. And it does run now except for the starter problem. The starter was doing this before I started the overhaul. I hoped a new starter from this web site would be the answer. I don't really know enough about the electrical end of these components to make an educated guess, that is why I came to this forum for help. With a few of the comments in these responses I feel like I might as well keep throwing money at it and keep guessing til the cows come home. I'll figure it out.

 

[JMOR]

OK, Tracy, not trying to get under your skin. Somethings said made me/us uncertain as to what you have/had and there was missing information (still is) that is all important to diagnosis (differs from guessing in that we have as many facts as exist). Only recently did it come to light that you have a 4 terminal solenoid. Only very recently did it come to light that it was behaving in this way before you worked on it. Next question is always important.........has it ever worked correctly? If not, what events occurred just before it stopped working correctly? Now, still missing facts, I'll take a stab that this solenoid may not work on this tractor (clearly not the correct solenoid, but with some 'rigging', several can be made to work). Begin by removing wires from the two small terminals, then re-connect battery & see if it still tries to crank. This is for diagnostic informational purposes....not and end fix.