580 b cylinder repacking?

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Hi guys,got my engine running finally with help from dieseltech on here rebuild of injection pump.
I need to repack swing cylinder next, is there any tips or tricks to remove it( like anything I need to do before removal as to aid in doing it so install is easier?)
Thanks Matt

 

[used red MN]

Do you have a repair manual? It is the best thing for a learner to have.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Yes, sometimes I get really good info or tips to go in addition to it on this site for things I'm unfamiliar with you know?

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

I'm looking on eBay to buy the whole kit is specifying whether it's a model 35 loader? It says it will fit any two piece cylinder which I'm unsure if I have one piece or two piece or if that is even the correct loader model? It is a 1972 case 580b CK with a standard 4speed transmission ( no transmission cooler)
Thanks Matt

 

[Nordic]

Can't help you much on the procedure but I just ordered some seals for my Case backhoe. I got them from hwpartstore.com in Texas. I am fully satisfied with their price and service. The person that took my order was very helpful.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Hi, what is the difference between a model 33 loader and a model 35 loader?
I'm not sure what model loader I have and that is the only difference between the two kits for the repack sets available online, is there a way to distinguish these two model loaders? There's about a $60 difference between the two sets,Thanks Matt

 

[Nordic]

It seem to me, based on the information given you would have to disassemble the hydraulic cylinders in question to see if you have the two piece piston type or not. When I had a 580B I never did any cylinder work (currently I have a 680H). You could phone hwpartstore at 979 402-0188 and get their take on this. I'd be surprised if you get a lower quote from any reputable outlet than from HW. I know some good deals come through ebay but last time I got a special o-ring through them from China it was the wrong size... after a looong wait.

 

[RESLLS]

Need the # off the gland. That will tell size. Then also need to know one or 2 piece piston. Remove both hoses. You can do it with hoe still on. Hard part is getting the gland off. Loctite on the piston bolt when you put it back together. e-backhoeparts will have anything you need for your b.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Mine doesn't have numbers( left side has a letterA right side hasB that's all I can find after scraping paint off
Can someone post a picture of exactly where numbers/ letters are? My manual shows that some glands are numbered and lettered and others are not at all so I believe I have the ones that are not. One of the hydraulic places I've talked to said that there should be a G1 or G3 which would tell them exactly what I needed but I cannot find anything other than a and b stamp on the face where the 4 holes are for spanner wrench

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

I think the model 33 loader was on the 580s that were manufactured in the '60s. Mine is a 72 so I believe I have a model 35 loader and backhoe?

 

[45cole]

you can probably just google the two types of hoes and see the diff - pay attention to the pivot at dipper shape, Honestly there's probably a tag on the hoe. A parts catalog will also help you identify it. The operators manual, parts manual are indispensable for working on these.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

(quoted from post at 07:45:26 12/08/22) Do you have a repair manual? It is the best thing for a learner to have.

The repair manual says to remove all the lines and completely remove the cylinder from the machine. I'm not removing it completely from the machine so I wondering if I even need to remove the lines because that will just let a chance for more junk to get into the system. All of the videos I've watched doing the swing cylinders the guys do not remove the hydraulic lines going to the cylinders, the bucket is completely resting on the ground and I can't imagine there's any movement that these cylinders can do since they're not technically holding anything up when I remove them...

This post was edited by Hunt4ihhayrakeid on 12/14/2022 at 10:33 am.

 

[45cole]

make sure you open the lines and leave opened to ensure you don't have a hyd pressure incident. You'll want to have a healthy dose of respect for the hydraulic pressures and built up energy

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Where these lines connect out by the gland
nut, there is no room to get a wrench in
there to even work to get them loose. I
can get to the lines on the back of the
cylinders and I'm assuming as long as I
crack them loose a few turns that would
release the pressure?

 

[45cole]

You'll want to break the lines on both sides of the cylinder and leave them open enough to flow if there's any unexpected flow. As you pull the piston/rod you'll be drawing a suction on the base side and draining-flowing on the rod side.

Might watch a youtube vid on the process...

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

(quoted from post at 12:49:50 12/14/22) You'll want to break the lines on both sides of the cylinder and leave them open enough to flow if there's any unexpected flow. As you pull the piston/rod you'll be drawing a suction on the base side and draining-flowing on the rod side.

Might watch a youtube vid on the process...

I have tried looking for a good one that either explains the need or not need to at least crack the lines loose and none of them even talk about it they go directly into removing the large pin and Gland nut and so on...
I work at a pretty large machine base company and most of the mechanics where I'm working I've told my scenario to and they said I could just crack the lines loose should be enough but they don't have the experience that people do here working on the exact machines that I'm referencing so that's why I'm asking people on here also. If I were to go by my manual I would have to remove all the lines in a specific order and remove the entire outer piston housing which I'm not getting into all that,which I can get to the lines on the rear which are closest to the opposite end of the gland nut but the lines closest to the gland nut are double lines that are stacked in a dual port so there's not even room for a wrench to go in there never mind how tight of workspace it is. I can't even get a open-end wrench on them...

 

[Jim.ME]

Think about this a minute. Hydraulic pressure moves the hoe. The valve closes and hold the pressure on both sides of a cylinder to hold it in place be it the bucket in the air or the swing to one side. Do you think you can pull hard enough on that cylinder rod to overcome a port relief valve (if it has one) or the valve that controls the swing function?

Crack the all the lines on that cylinder so that the oil freely runs out, or better yet take them off the cylinder fittings.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Gotcha thanks

 

[Jim.ME]

"I can't even get a open-end wrench on them..."

You may need a tubing, or similar style, wrench.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

I ended up getting both swing cylinders apart, now to try and figure out how to get this internal metal piece out of the gland nut that sandwiches the oil seal inside(I tried using a simple metal punch until I saw that it was denting it, I'm hoping I can get some type of puller on it at work) and then I'll have to press the wiper seal in afterwards. I was hoping to be able to get the oil seal back in without having to press this other part out but no luck as it's way too stiff to bend back in that space without damaging it...(I decided to just do both swing cylinders since I'm this far along, only one was leaking terribly the other was just small but I figured I might as well do both since they're probably the same age and not too far apart in condition) I did end up getting the higher quality repacking kits from the company in Texas and not off eBay (I figured I might as well do it with good quality materials as I've done with the rest of the engine overhaul...)
Thanks guys for info, more to come

This post was edited by Hunt4ihhayrakeid on 12/16/2022 at 04:17 am.

 

[mEl]

The gland has no removable pieces after the soft parts are out so do not try to move anything, be sure that the shell for the front wiper is out if the nylon part was deteriorated. There are special tool made for installing the V cup inner pressure seal without damaging it, a little nick in the edge and all the work is for nothing, this tool twists the seal till it looks like a heart wrapped around 3 metal fingers, slips back in place and released.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Where can I get one of these special
tools?

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

(quoted from post at 06:32:26 12/16/22) Where can I get one of these special
tools?

I got one from a guy at work, thanks for the help!
Got the inner seal put back in super slick with the tool, thanks guys

This post was edited by Hunt4ihhayrakeid on 12/16/2022 at 08:19 am.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

(quoted from post at 06:57:38 12/16/22)

(quoted from post at 06:32:26 12/16/22) Where can I get one of these special
tools?

I got one from a guy at work, thanks for the help!
Got the inner seal put back in super slick with the tool, thanks guys

This post was edited by Hunt4ihhayrakeid on 12/16/2022 at 08:19 am.
Got both swing cylinders put back together today, can't wait to see how they work, any tips on bleeding everything or is there no need to do anything other than keep operating them until they fill up again?

 

[Jim.ME]

No need to bleed them, operate full swings, side to side, several times and the air should clear itself.

 

[Hunt4ihhayrakeid]

Nice, thanks

 

[Dalepgoslin]

Hi, If you google search how to rebuild injection pump, then you will get a lot of hits. I also took my cylinder apart for repair and it was pretty filthy inside here, so someone should have serviced it at some point. I would recommend you to find who was the last person to service it, and ask him/her if they have the tool needed to open up the cylinder to get it cleaned up.

This post was edited by Dalepgoslin on 01/23/2023 at 08:39 pm.