5900 starter help

[Bishop64]

I'm a little stumped and could benefit from another's perspective.

I was using the tractor to move some equipment around. Turned it off and later that day went to put out hay and only got clicks when I turned the key. Not entirely unusual as the battery posts occasionally get corroded so I cleaned and tightened them. Same results, just clicks. I hadn't mark the date on the battery so I figured I'd charge it and see. Did that with same results. So I went with the high-tech back up solution and tried whacking the starter and solenoid. Nothing.

Reluctantly I ordered a new starter from NAPA. Stupidly I gave them my core (wishing now I had tried to find a rebuild kit but I needed to get hay out). The one came in looked the same except for the electrical connections - and no instructions/diagram. My old starter had the heavy cables going to the big post and the small relay wire attached by a little screw. Now I don't even get a click...

The NAPA unit has two spades on the block side. I assumed one was for the little relay wire. Neither will activate the starter solenoid, even when both are energized. I do get power going to the little wire when the key is turned to "start".

I know there's always the good chance I got a new starter straight out of the box that could be bad (even with the "Passed" sticker). I have a faint feeling it could be a weak battery as it won't hold a full charge so I plan to replace it anyway. But I still have the saga of the two small spade connections on the block side (it also has two larger spades on the top + post but I assume these are for accessories?). Is one actually where the relay wire attaches and if so, which?

Thanks,

 

[Jim.ME]

Part number of the starter you got from NAPA? It would help to know that to see if it is the right starter and the connections on it.

Did you check the condition of the connection of the ground cable to the chassis?

Have the battery tested, with a carbon pile load tester, replace if needed.

You are going to have to know the battery is good and the connections on both ends of the battery cables are good. You missed the opportunity to troubleshoot the problem, now you will need to start at the beginning and follow the power through the key switch and the neutral safety switch to the starter solenoid.

Do you have a manual with the wiring diagrams?

 

[DanielW]

Weak battery and bad connection at the clamp/cable interface (usually the cable being a little corroded inside where it enters the terminal/clamp) would also be my guess. But very much just a guess. Regarding the two terminals on the starter: I agree with Jim above that it would be handy to know the Napa #. Or perhaps post a picture of it? A few starters have two spades for the solenoid activation wire, but the ones I've seen like this are very obviously tied together externally. The only starters I've seen with two separate smaller (un-tied) spades are on newer trucks/cars, where one of them is a sensing wire and it won't activate the fuel/EFI system if you energize the wrong one (I learned the hard way, after incorrectly assuming they were both solenoid activation wires). Picture below is what I'm referring to (this one's a little different than the ones I've seen, but same idea. I took this one from online).

I'm rather doubting a starter for a 5900 has this sensing/slave terminal, but if Napa starters use more generic/universal solenoids, it might be the case. There's often a lot more interchangeability between starter components and frame sizes than you might think. If you've verified the battery, cable connections, and grounds are all good I'd check with a continuity meter between all four terminals to see what's tied together. That might give you a better idea of what's what.

 

[Hacke]

Sounds like one of these. One of the tabs (#3) is usually soldered onto the ends of the solenoid coils. That one should be used for the wire from the key switch (or starter switch). The other tab is internally connected to the first by a thin wire. If you connect the key/starter switch to that, chances are that the hairthin wire burns off when you try to energize the solenoid coils (20 - 30 A). That tab is for low current jobs, like bypassing a ballast resistor when you crank a gasoline engine.

If none of the tabs will make the solenoid click when you put battery (+) to it, and the housing is properly grounded (battery (-)), the solenoid is faulty.

 

[Bishop64]

I haven't checked the chassis ground, didn't even think of that... The NAPA starter did show a lot of applications. In fact we had to look up one for a 5610 then verify it fit the 5900 (and many others). I have a good parts guy there who goes the extra mile. When we opened the box and saw the different terminals he double checked and said if I wired it up wrong trying to figure it out he'd warranty it.

I'll check the part number. It's not unheard of to have the wrong part in the right box either but it looks exactly like the picture Hacke just posted. If I recall I think I tried the lower spade first and the upper one was soldered so I might have melted that internal wire. That (or the chassis ground) could explain why I didn't even get a click.

Heading down to check those things now.

Thanks guys!!!

 

[Bishop64]

I bench checked the starter and everything works as it should. Double checked the wiring and that seems to as well. Ground is clean and looks good. The battery is staying at 12.7v.

I'm missing something obvious...

Due to the different solenoid connection, I've been using a jumper with alligator clips. I'll fix that today and see what happens. Plus my + battery clamp seems iffy so I'll replace that as well.

 

[Bishop64]

Well I got it running. Hard wired the solenoid wire and bought a new battery. Might have been the battery all along even though the old one charged to 12.7v.

In hind sight, I should have tested the battery first but I've never had a battery start just fine multiple times then not 30 minutes later. Then again, starters usually give a warning too...

With the money I spent on the starter I could have bought a really nice battery load tester and still have my original. Live and learn, even at my age.

Thanks for your guys help, confirming the starter was correct and what the spade terminals did at least made it work.

Cheers,