600 has me perplexed

[rrlund]

I guess I bought this yesterday. We shook on it anyway. He wouldn't take my money, said to pay him when I came back to get it. The serial number has me confused. The wife and I both looked at it several times where it's stamped in the frame. It has an Oliver tag, but it was painted over and behind some hoses that have been cobbled on to it. Also has the original Oliver grill badge but has some overspray on it. We both read the number to be 260263. The serial numbers here on YT are showing the 1962 600s as starting at 449800 and 63 starting at 452301. Larry Gay's book shows those numbers too, but 1963 ending at 453700. It's a real late one. It has the battery in front of the radiator, not in the cross box. An early article on those said if the battery is in front of the radiator, it's not an Oliver, but a later article said they made some with the battery there, and I don't remember if it was David Maguire or Nelson LaCount who told me the same thing. I looked at the DB 990 serial numbers and they started at 440 something. Even if we both saw it wrong and it started with a 4 not a 2, we would have had to have gotten the second number wrong too and saw it as a 6 when it was a 5. Unless somebody knows that those numbers on all the serial number lists are wrong, I'll be doubting myself until I get it home.

 

[rrlund]

A few more pictures. Somebody has put Deere fenders on it. It came out of orchard country like my 500 Orchard. It has under belly exhaust too. Does anybody know who got the parts at Jim Erwin's sale? He had a couple more of the rubber plugs that go in the hole where the muffler comes up out of the hood where the muffler goes for the vertical exhaust. I'd sure like to have another one if somebody knows who got them.

 

[psimmer]

I have been wondering if you got up this way and were able to get ahold of the guy and how it turned out. Glad you were able to. I am looking forward to progress reports and what you find out. Owner seemed like a good guy.

 

[scootergmc]

Does Charles City have the David Brown records?

 

[scootergmc]

There were serial numbers starting with 46. Remember this thread? https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=oliver&th=189923

 

[rrlund]

I can't thank you enough Paul for setting up the deal. Jim's an Oliver man too. He said he grew up on a dairy farm over toward Saginaw and they had Olivers. He knew what he had. We were open and honest with each other right from the word go. He said he didn't really want to sell it, but after we talked a while and I showed him pictures of my 500s, he started to realize that a rare tractor needed to be with somebody who would restore it, not sitting outside and just used to mow the grass. He asked what I'd give him and I made an offer. He told me that was twice what he'd paid for it. I said ''Ya, but you know what you've got and I want to be fair with you.'' We kept talking about other things and he said ''I think I'm gonna sell it to you''. I told him to be sure, that I was happy just knowing where it was and asked if he'd call me if he decided for sure. He said he was sure and we shook on it. He said he thinks he has the headlights for it,told me to give him some time to clean some things up and see if he could find them. I told him I'd just as soon wait until after Labor Day anyway to go back up in hopes that the traffic wouldn't be so insane up there.

 

[rrlund]

I can remember seeing that first picture somewhere. I don't remember if it was in that post or in Hart Parr Oliver Collector or
something. I guess reading through it though, I did comment on it. That one is 460146, meaning this one I'm buying is even later
than that one. He says it was built in Nov/Dec 63. That seems odd since everything I've read says the deal between DB and Oliver
ended in April of 63. I'll withhold jumping to conclusions until AngryBob can check his books or if David M has any insight in to
it.

I don't think Charles City has anything on them. Final assembly was in Cleveland at the Cletrac plant wasn't it?

I wonder if Peter Williams in the UK might know something about when the final end came and which serial number was the last?
Wouldn't that be something if I had the first 500 and the last 600? LOL

 

[rrlund]

Another thing just dawned on me, it has the sloping dummy cover over the cross box instead of the flat battery box cover. At least on the left side. The box had been torched on the right side and the cover is gone. That tells me that the battery in front of the radiator is correct. My 500 gas only used 1 battery and has that dummy cover on the side that doesn't have a battery. If you look close at the third picture in Dale Frank's post, you'll see that dummy cover on his too on the right side.

 

[scootergmc]

I think it's quite possible this was one of the tractors rumored to be purchased by Oliver to fill demand in 1964, and fall outside the reported serial number ranges.

 

[rrlund]

I hadn't heard that story, but that would be consistent with MJintheUK's comment in the old post where he stated that all 62 and 63
DB 990s had the batteries back in the cross box by the seat. Throw in the fact that the 64 DB 990 serial numbers started at 460538.
I thought all the Olivers ere supposed to have their own serial number range, but who knows, maybe they just pulled the first run
of 990s off the line and painted and badged them as Olivers to fill an order.

I keep tripping over the oddballs don't I.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Sounds like the 600 I have has the battery in the front.I'll check the serial number again but know its higher than the first ones.

 

[scootergmc]

I'm not sure anything specific is oddball when it comes to the 500/600. I just think the entire line is oddball on its own, like an Oliver stop-gap stepchild.

 

[psimmer]

Thats a great story. I didnt talk to him enough to know his history. So glad it worked out. I have seen the pictures of your 500s, and how nice they look. I might have to come down your way sometime when you have the 600 done and you have them together at a show. Ya traffic is mich better once all of the schools start and tourist season is basically over.

 

[scootergmc]

Yours is 460268, found in another thread.

 

[rrlund]

I have a theory about my serial number 3 500 with the David Brown prototype tag. Those two DB 850s dressed as Olivers were sent
over here in December of 59. We know that DB sent 2 of them painted Royal Air Force blue gray to the west coast in January 59 to
demonstrate to two companies there that were interested in distributed them. I'm thinking that those two tractors had 100001 and
100002 stamped in the frame and the two sent as Olivers were 100003 and 10004 and that's why my prototype 500 is 100003.

 

[alberta dave]

if you look at a picture of a 1962 DB 880 it looks at lot like your new tractor. The steering arm, the embossing on the side tin where the lights should go look the same to me.

 

[MJ in the UK]

Hi Randy if its any help in April 1963 DB put the single battery in the front and put a fabricated front axle on the 990 Implematic tractors. MJ.

 

[rrlund]

That helps a lot. I emailed Peter Williams about it but haven't heard back from him yet. That would make a lot of sense since the deal between Oliver and DB was said to have ended in April 1963. It's hard to believe they would have waited until late 63 or early 64 to make the last batch. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[AngryBobKing]

Congratulations Randy! Sorry for the late late reply I'm just getting around to checking in on things here. I found another 500 that is local to me. Iv been helping show the gentlemen what he has.
Sounds like you do have an interesting serial number issue. Do you remember if the block has OA/990 stamped in front of the serial number? I'v talked to Nelson and he has told me that he definitely has tractors outside of the serial number ranges for both the 500s and the 600s in his registry but nothing as way off as those. I have not seen the theory that MJ was talking about in writing, I'd like to see those documents if they exist. I guess see if the liver tag on the crossbox matches. maybe its a frame off something else. The front axle is different than mine, however I have an early model.