6030 Start-Up Problems

[newgenjdcollector]

I have a 6030 that I need help diagnosing a startup problem. Just started doing this all of a sudden. As soon as it fires and the rpms start to climb, the engine flutters out and dies. Even if you increase the thottle, you can't keep it alive. It's almost like it has enough fuel to start, but not to keep it going. It only does it when it's cold. After it has been running, it will start back just fine every time. I have heard I should keep more fuel in the tank for more fuel pressure, but I have other 6030s that start fine with almost empty tanks, so I'm a bit puzzled. I have changed the fuel filters and dumped and cleaned the sediment bowl, so I know the fuel system is clean. Once started it runs amazing with no troubles. I am just not sure what it could be.

 

[Tx Jim]

Sounds as if fuel is draining back to tank while setting no running for prolong periods. 1st try opening fuel bleeder then pump hand pump to see if fuel comes out immediately. If no immediate fuel install a new check valve.

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 03:56:50 04/12/14)
Sounds as if fuel is draining back to tank while setting no running for prolong periods. 1st try opening fuel bleeder then pump hand pump to see if fuel comes out immediately. If no immediate fuel install a new check valve.

There is no check valve on a 6030. The thing is that before I start, I can prime it up until I hear fuel squirting back in the tank. So the whole system has plenty of pressure before it cranks over. Then it starts immediately, revs up about half way (you know how the deeres rev way up at startup), then flutters and dies.

 

[David G]

Does it do the same with a full tank of fuel? If not I would suspect a lift pump.

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 05:52:57 04/12/14) Does it do the same with a full tank of fuel? If not I would suspect a lift pump.

I have not tried it with a full tank yet. Somehow I don't think that is going to make a difference.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 08:46:15

There is no check valve on a 6030.

That's true but a check valve(parts key #17) could be installed.
AR73888 Check Valve ADD 44.75 USD
Your tractor's inj pump doesn't have an aneroid does it as I didn't locate one in parts catalog. I'm not familiar with 6030's as none are in my area.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Check the overflow valve for a broken spring.
Its the connection going back to the tank on the inj. pump.
1 is fuel in and the other is fuel out[overflow valve]..
The pump fuel gallery MUST maintain about 25psi inorder for the plungers inside the pump to pump fuel.

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 03:34:51 04/13/14) Check the overflow valve for a broken spring.
Its the connection going back to the tank on the inj. pump.
1 is fuel in and the other is fuel out[overflow valve]..
The pump fuel gallery MUST maintain about 25psi inorder for the plungers inside the pump to pump fuel.

Okay so I looked into this today. In fact I looked at three of my tractors. One is a stock 6030, one is a 6030 w/619, and the other is a stock 7520 (identical motor to 6030). Out of those, the only one that had a spring loaded mechanism coming out of the pump was the 619 motor. I pulled it completely apart and it looked okay. I am unsure if that tells me anything or not.

 

[thepumpguysc]

If you can provide the 10 digit P# on the pump name plate, that would tell a lot. or even the PES# would help..

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 02:31:47 04/14/14) If you can provide the 10 digit P# on the pump name plate, that would tell a lot. or even the PES# would help..

Okay, here is what I got. Some of them were hard to read so hopefully it will be enough for each to tell.

7520
PES6P100A720RS1010
0402076005
230 36979
------------------------
6030 W/619 (from forage harvester I'm told)
PES69110A720RS370
07116688
-------------------------
6030 (not sure what pump this has)
PES6P100A728RS1010
22126023
-------------------------

 

[thepumpguysc]

The Bosch pump HAS TO HAVE a restriction [overflow valve] in the pump gallery going back to the tank.. It may be just an orifice in the return connector or a spring and check ball in the banjo fitting. IF you find an orifice, I would suspect you have a supply problem.
The little plastic valves in the supply pump will beat the metal seats out and allow fuel to return to the tank. The supply pump can be rebuilt cheaply. New valves installed, seats reground and a new hand primer will get you going for around 100.00.
Check for the orifice first.

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 09:06:52 04/14/14) The Bosch pump HAS TO HAVE a restriction [overflow valve] in the pump gallery going back to the tank.. It may be just an orifice in the return connector or a spring and check ball in the banjo fitting. IF you find an orifice, I would suspect you have a supply problem.
The little plastic valves in the supply pump will beat the metal seats out and allow fuel to return to the tank. The supply pump can be rebuilt cheaply. New valves installed, seats reground and a new hand primer will get you going for around 100.00.
Check for the orifice first.

I typically put the new style spring loaded bosch hand pumps on all my tractors to make priming much easier. I have noticed that if I prime while cranking the engine, It starts normally. If not, it will start and die.

I really didn't see any external orfice on the overflow except in the 619 (which did have a plastic check plug and spring, held in by a "T" slotted retainer). I assume I am looking at the right one. It elbow's off the pump and then 'T's into the leak off line and then goes to the tank.

The one that is the worst looked as though some parts were missing because the fitting was threaded on the inside but did not have the "T" slotted retainer, spring and check plug. Do guys take these parts out for some reason?

 

[Kent Petersen]

you can by the check that go in the ar73888 its # is ar73824 and yes i would bet there is one in your 6030 i have one on hand i think it was about 5or6 bucks

 

[thepumpguysc]

No, I've never heard of anyone taking 1 out and leaving it out. I think you found your problem. If you can pump it and it will start normally.. replace the overflow and you should be ok.
I can send you 1 if you like, just pay the shipping.. Send me your address to my "home email", put at aol dot com after my name.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 23:20:24 04/14/14) you can by the check that go in the ar73888 its # is ar73824 and yes i would bet there is one in your 6030 i have one on hand i think it was about 5or6 bucks

Here's a parts photo of the check valve(parts key #3) that Kent referred to.
AR73824 Check Valve ADD 3.72 USD

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 02:52:27 04/15/14) No, I've never heard of anyone taking 1 out and leaving it out. I think you found your problem. If you can pump it and it will start normally.. replace the overflow and you should be ok.
I can send you 1 if you like, just pay the shipping.. Send me your address to my "home email", put at aol dot com after my name.

Not exactly. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter if I prime it up before craking or not. If I prime it, it will start and then die. If I don't prime it, it will start and die. BUT, if I have someone start pumping as soon as it fires, I can keep it going. I don't think it's a check valve because I have replaced those before and this is different. It is not leaking off pressure. It acts like it is burning more fuel on startup than it can supply until the rack is run. And then everything is fine once it comes back to idle.

 

[Tx Jim]

newgenjdcollector
When you prime do you open a bleeder valve to let any air out?

 

[newgenjdcollector]

(quoted from post at 05:58:02 04/15/14)
newgenjdcollector
When you prime do you open a bleeder valve to let any air out?

I thought about that, but I bled all the air recently when I changed the fuel filters. So I don't believe there is any air in the system now. The problem is more like like a supply problem. Like the supply pump is grabbing for fuel but there isn't enough there.

 

[Tx Jim]

Air replaces fuel when the fuel drains back to tank! It's very simple to open a bleeder,pump lift pump and check for the presence of air or fuel coming out of bleeder orifice.