6430 premium engine -no start???

[Aussie Ken]

Here is the scenario ?
-- 6430 premium European edition tractor in Australia -5245 hrs --IVT transmission
-customer says he put fuel in one night at the end of the working day
-the next day it was started and the engine was missing
-- it ran for a while then stopped
-they removed the fuel filters and the fuel was dirty-
- turns out the fuel was bad - possibly a dead animal in fuel supply tank that had liquefied
- They changed the fuel filters
- they got it running again but poorly
- they turned off the tractor ?key was off-- and it ran on like the engine was going to run away -possibly to 3000 rpm before it stopped by itself
- it would not restart
- I was called out to the farm
- while it cranked over there was an awful knock and some white smoke
- i connected to the tractor and the fuel rail pressure was 450 psi while cranking -- spec is 4560 psi
- we decided that the fuel injectors were the issue
- the customer removed the engine parts to access the injectors
? they removed the injectors and they were tested at a fuel injection shop
- 2 of 4 injectors were bad
- I went back out to farm
- installed 4 reman electronic injectors in the tractor and adjusted the valves while the cover was off
- I cleaned the whole fuel system, from the injector lines, the fuel rail, supply lines to the HPCR pump. the HPCR pump, the filters were changed and the tops of the filter assemblies were removed and cleaned
- the fuel tank was completely drained
-- customers reassembled the engine and tried to retstart the engine
-the engine would not start and was knocking and smoking
--I went back out and reconnected the laptop
--Rechecked the fuel rail pressure while cranking ? 450 psi ?same as before
-- customer removed the HPCR pump
- a new HPCR pump was timed and installed by me
-a new fuel rail relief valve was installed by me
-- tried to restart the tractor ? still no start ?
Rechecked fuel rail pressure ? 450psi and a max of 1000 psi while cranking
- smoke and knocking sounds while cranking
Cracked line on top of rail to injectors ? fuel coming out at a very low pressure
- I thought there was trapped air in the HPCR fuel lines to the injectors
-- used some brake cleaner as staring fluid to tried to start tractor
--- tractor started and ran for 2 minutes ? engine sounded pretty good, but lots of white smoke and then engine laboured and it stopped
- it would not restart with brake cleaner
Checked the laptop and the fuel rail pressure had maxed while running to 19000 psi-
-removed crankshaft position sensor and checked tone wheel ?it felt secure
-- removed camshaft position sensor plug and cranked
- The engine did not knock as bad, but no start
-Removed new stroke control valve and removed O ring to achieve max fuel pressure
-tried to start ? nope
-Removed fuel rail relief valve line and checked for leakage ? none
-Removed fuel rail pressure sensor from a new 6125M on farm and tried - no start
- there was 0psi pressure recorded while key was on from fuel rail pressure sensor
- Pulled fuel pickup from tank and checked screen ? clean
-Put 10 litres of diesel in a pail and put pickup/gauge sender unit in pail and turned on key
- fuel was pumping good ? held finger over return line and there seems to be a good amount of back pressure
-tried to restart ? nope
-Swapped ECU with a known good ECU from a 6030 tractor that we use as a donor ECU?no change
Did engine compression tests while cranking and connected with laptop
--- these are an average comparison percentage test
---#1 cyl -100
---#2 ? 48
--#3 ? 45
-- #4 ? 43
Retried several times ----
The worst test was
#1 ?100
#2 ? 7
#3 ?23
#4 ?25

Used laptop to do a wiring harness test on engine several times
Injectors were ticking good
Every test was successful
No Diagnostic Trouble Codes were recorded except fuel rail pressure low while cranking
DTC would appear when different scenarios were tried ?like when unplugging stroke control valve etc

Bottom line
- Still not making any fuel rail pressure over 450 -1000 psi, but when it did run pressure went to 19000psi
- I am thinking something internally went wrong with engine before I got to it ?possibly when it ?ran away?
- Possible drive issue in timing cover causing a drive issue for the HPCR pump only turning at 10% speed to achieve 10% pressure
- Possible cam shaft issue ? no valves were out of adjustment by more than .002?when I checked them
- possible IVT problem causing cranking speed problems -but crank speed was at 425 rpm
- After Christmas the plan is at this point to get it into the shop and check into engine internal problems ---


Anyone experience this??
Any ideas??
Thanks in advance!!
Merry Christmas to all members!!

 

[ColeHans]

judging by the use of a laptop i figure your a dealer tech, i dont know about in Austrailia but here in the states we have the DTAC (Dealer technical assistance center) They are all engineers with access to alot more detailed technical specs then the techs do. They have a large data base with every case submitted, i would do a search through it and if nothing is found, i would try opening a case an they usually reply very fast.

 

[Tech 7]

Have not got much to help you with Ken, I have been away from dealership level for almost 4 years. Those compression #s are weird though.It leads me to think like you are about something more internal....I could look up Roys phone number for you LOL!
Let us know what you find. I battled with a VGT on an 8x30 one time and after doing a lot of the testing like you have done was talking to a rep from DTAC. After telling him about the testing I had been doing his comment was "the harness test is not always conclusive" WHAT?
From that I took that we sometimes have to go beyond the normal channels.
Go out and drive that 420C around a bit, its good therapy!
Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

[Aussie Ken]

Went back out to tractor today -

Connected a pressure gauge to the outlet of the secondary fuel filter - 5.75 psi - spec is 4.4 psi or above -good

Cranking speed was 450 rpm -good

Performed 3 electronic compression tests -all 3 tests -#1 cylinder was 100% 3 times --#2 was @ 45, #3 was @ 52, #4 was @ 46 - spec is --all cylinders are to be with 10% compression of each other - service advisor says fuel injector is the issue

Fuel rail pressure was 865 psi maximum - spec is 4500 psi - bad

I had replaced the fuel rail relief valve - used the old valve as a plug and installed in the rail where #1 injector dampener was to seal off #1 fuel injector port

Cranked engine and it started right up and ran on 3 cylinders

Drove it into the shed to get out of the sun

Tore down interm tier 4 engine to access injector -VGT turbo and manifold, EGR and housing, A/C compressor and bracket.

Removed injector - looked okay on inspection

Performed a mechanical compression test on #1 cylinder ---400 psi - spec -350-480 psi - good

Installed another reman fuel injector -

Cleaned a pile of black gumbo out of the muffler -unburnt fuel and carbon

Tried to start while engine was still apart - started good and ran nice

Reassembled all parts removed

Reinstalled original HPCR fuel pump and rail relief valve

Started tractor and it ran great - smoked a lot from the exhaust and from muffler area - smoke was getting reduced as the tractor ran

Customer happy - -- and I am too!!!

 

[Tx Jim]

I'm glad you got the engine running. Nothing feels better than success.
Jim

 

[Tech 7]

Glad you won Ken. Still wonder how it was coming up with those goofy #s.

 

[jd2cylman]

I feel your pain on the reman thing. I work for a NH dealer. We have been using NH branded reman stuff since they came out with the reman program. In fact on every warranty, we HAVE to use reman first, unless there isn't a reman available, or unless the machine has less than 40 hours on it. We recently had a skidsteer in the shop that had fuel contamination (by the customer). We drained and cleaned the fuel tank and system and installed a reman injection pump. Wouldn't start. Determined that the reman pump was bad(came in an opened box, not a good sign). Installed a second reman injection pump with new injectors. Same symptoms. Ordered a NEW injection pump and installed same. Machine started right up and ran perfect. Now all the remans are supposed to be bench tested before they leave the center. BUT, do they just check them for output and not for pressure? We don't know, yet...
Adrian