706 MCV damage

[garethbell3]

Pulled off my MCV today on my 706 to begin a rebuild/ pump replacement. One of the bolts on the MCV was a replacement bolt with a ton of washers on it and was coated with thread sealant. Then i found out why. Any clue what would have done damage like this?

 

[used red MN]

Hello GB, welcome to YT. I’ve seen that kind of damage in cast from a bolt being screwed into a hole full of fluid/oil. Usually hurry up Hank is involved putting and impact on the bolt. Most the times I have seen this is the holes were vertical so they held the oil. Only thing I could think of in this case would have been that the MCV was pulled off in extreme cold like 0F and the stiff oil held in the holes. One other possibility would be an excessive use of RTV which filled the holes. Anyone who would apply that amount of RTV to an MCV would have to be an idiot.

 

[the tractior vet]

Wrong bolt in the WRONG HOLE and over torqued , The Expert who said RTV has NO IDEA that what he saw was PRINT O SEAL on a FACTORY GSKT. . Gee's i wish he would learn thing before he put's his Grubby fingers to the key board . Plum Dumber then a box of cardboard rocks. He has NEVER worked on a large frame I H but he jumps in with his EXPERT ADVICE . It also could be the last Wizz kid cross threaded it and put the impact to it . This i never do , yep i am old and do things the OLD way and have done a lot of T/A's on the 06-86 tractors , YOU have a mess .

 

[Mrfred54]

Yup, wrong bolt was used in those holes. Have repaired this kind of damage before. Use JB weld. Fill the threaded hole and the gasket surface with JB weld. (Make sure the hole is clean and dry ) after JB weld is dry and hard, sand down the gasket surface till smooth with the casting, then install the MCV to casting with a couple bolts to hold it perfectly in place. Now using a 5/16 drill, drill into the JB weld about a 1/16 of an inch. This will center the hole to drill it 13/64ths for a 1/4” tap. You can use a 1/4 in. bolt in these two holes. Make sure for the correct length. All the MCV bolts are torqued to 20 ft lbs. the 1/4 in bolts, just snug them up good, I would recommend all new bolts, grade 5 or 8.

 

[miangus]

Caused by a moron with too short of a bolt, would be my guess. Are there threads deeper where you could use a stud. Mrfred54 sounds like he has actual success with his system. A proper repair would include drilling it out and installing a treaded insert with the correct size internal thread. Note I didn't say a thread insert.

 

[garethbell3]

Yup, wrong bolt was used in those holes. Have repaired this kind of damage before. Use JB weld. Fill the threaded hole and the gasket surface with JB weld. (Make sure the hole is clean and dry ) after JB weld is dry and hard, sand down the gasket surface till smooth with the casting, then install the MCV to casting with a couple bolts to hold it perfectly in place. Now using a 5/16 drill, drill into the JB weld about a 1/16 of an inch. This will center the hole to drill it 13/64ths for a 1/4” tap. You can use a 1/4 in. bolt in these two holes. Make sure for the correct length. All the MCV bolts are torqued to 20 ft lbs. the 1/4 in bolts, just snug them up good, I would recommend all new bolts, grade 5 or 8.

I was thinking JB weld might be a viable option as well. Probably the route ill end uo taking, i appreciate you! This has been one of those tractors where the gift keeps giving

 

[garethbell3]

Caused by a moron with too short of a bolt, would be my guess. Are there threads deeper where you could use a stud. Mrfred54 sounds like he has actual success with his system. A proper repair would include drilling it out and installing a treaded insert with the correct size internal thread. Note I didn't say a thread insert.

Plenty of threads left in there surprisingly. So i guess just getting a nice surface for the gasket is the main concern

 

[the tractior vet]

Yup, wrong bolt was used in those holes. Have repaired this kind of damage before. Use JB weld. Fill the threaded hole and the gasket surface with JB weld. (Make sure the hole is clean and dry ) after JB weld is dry and hard, sand down the gasket surface till smooth with the casting, then install the MCV to casting with a couple bolts to hold it perfectly in place. Now using a 5/16 drill, drill into the JB weld about a 1/16 of an inch. This will center the hole to drill it 13/64ths for a 1/4” tap. You can use a 1/4 in. bolt in these two holes. Make sure for the correct length. All the MCV bolts are torqued to 20 ft lbs. the 1/4 in bolts, just snug them up good, I would recommend all new bolts, grade 5 or 8.

Well i have gone the OTHER way and gone out to 3/8ths I had one guy literately BLOW the M C V clean off the tractor when he messed with the pressure reg. and it also built enough pressure that it split the pump open . He was tryen to keep the clutches locked up during a pull with a wound for sound 530 cu in pulling engine . That one pulled all the threads Warped the M CV body . That was like 30 years back

 

[the tractior vet]

Yup, wrong bolt was used in those holes. Have repaired this kind of damage before. Use JB weld. Fill the threaded hole and the gasket surface with JB weld. (Make sure the hole is clean and dry ) after JB weld is dry and hard, sand down the gasket surface till smooth with the casting, then install the MCV to casting with a couple bolts to hold it perfectly in place. Now using a 5/16 drill, drill into the JB weld about a 1/16 of an inch. This will center the hole to drill it 13/64ths for a 1/4” tap. You can use a 1/4 in. bolt in these two holes. Make sure for the correct length. All the MCV bolts are torqued to 20 ft lbs. the 1/4 in bolts, just snug them up good, I would recommend all new bolts, grade 5 or 8.

Now now M CV bolts are 5/16 ths grad five BUT i have see some that WERE GRADE 8 . And as for the casting repair i prefer LAB Metal . A fully machinable metal epoxy. Used that stuff on lower counter bore repairs and after 24 hour cure time it machines like cast iron '

 

[used red MN]

Plum Dumber then a box of cardboard rocks.

So listen up Mr. The Tract”i”or Vet, I have never directed a derogatory word towards you. I may have thrown some sarcasm at you like drafty or breezy but that is because it’s the only problem I have with you, the fact that you dump your “stories” in the middle of threads that are trying to help someone solve their issue or repair problem. It’s disruptive and rude to a degree. Take your reply 4 in the “1460 sieve thread” best I can count you have 6 different stories in there and none have a thing to do with removing sieve bolt. Did I say disruption? All I ask is when you want to tell story start your own thread and keep it out of other members threads that are wanting help. I would prefer you place them in Tractor Tales but since the stories will most likely be tractor or farm related I can’t squabble if you place them in Tractor & Farm Talk. In your own thread you can put 10 pages of stories in there and you would never hear a peep out of me.
I don’t question your ability, knowledge or experience. You suggested all that to turn the tables on me. Believe it or not I think you’re a relatively intelligent individual. All I ask is for you to use that intelligence and show a little courtesy by not flooding some other members thread with your tales.
As far as the red stuff on the gasket yes, I know that is printed on sealer. My thought about the RTV was that it may have happened previously and it was all removed when they figured out it was a bad idea. As far as fluid locked in a threaded hole in a casting I’m sure you know it can cause problems and breakage. So it wasn’t necessarily a complete left field answer. Your experience likely provided the better answer, that I won’t argue.

He has NEVER worked on a large frame I H

This is not true, I have worked on them. One job was a broken internal shifter. An IJP pump on another and some other this and that’s, but yes far less than you.

 

[Mrfred54]

Have never used LAB metal, have great success with JB weld. It does get hard to sand down. Use it on a lot of different projects

 

[garethbell3]

Have never used LAB metal, have great success with JB weld. It does get hard to sand down. Use it on a lot of different projects

Being that im in a hay barn with no power or lighting JB weld outa be good enough! I was thinking that route but needed someone else to say it first!

 

[garethbell3]

I appreciate everyones help and time taken to respond to my posts. Honestly if the name calling stuff has to happen just do it in a private message to each other. I think most of us spend time with old tractors to get away from drama, not find it. Thanks for everyones help!

 

[the tractior vet]

So listen up Mr. The Tract”i”or Vet, I have never directed a derogatory word towards you. I may have thrown some sarcasm at you like drafty or breezy but that is because it’s the only problem I have with you, the fact that you dump your “stories” in the middle of threads that are trying to help someone solve their issue or repair problem. It’s disruptive and rude to a degree. Take your reply 4 in the “1460 sieve thread” best I can count you have 6 different stories in there and none have a thing to do with removing sieve bolt. Did I say disruption? All I ask is when you want to tell story start your own thread and keep it out of other members threads that are wanting help. I would prefer you place them in Tractor Tales but since the stories will most likely be tractor or farm related I can’t squabble if you place them in Tractor & Farm Talk. In your own thread you can put 10 pages of stories in there and you would never hear a peep out of me.
I don’t question your ability, knowledge or experience. You suggested all that to turn the tables on me. Believe it or not I think you’re a relatively intelligent individual. All I ask is for you to use that intelligence and show a little courtesy by not flooding some other members thread with your tales.
As far as the red stuff on the gasket yes, I know that is printed on sealer. My thought about the RTV was that it may have happened previously and it was all removed when they figured out it was a bad idea. As far as fluid locked in a threaded hole in a casting I’m sure you know it can cause problems and breakage. So it wasn’t necessarily a complete left field answer. Your experience likely provided the better answer, that I won’t argue.

This is not true, I have worked on them. One job was a broken internal shifter. An IJP pump on another and some other this and that’s, but yes far less than you.

BUT have you ever had every nut and bolt , every gear , every engine component scattered acroos the floor ??NOPE . You jump in on EVERY POST ON EVERY SIGHT . Like you know it all , me well yea i have worked on Deere's , David Browns only under the cover of darkness, Olivers and NO i am NOT a Oliver expert i left that to an other guy even though a OLD Oliver dealer would call and have me come up when they got back logged . Now as for a shifter issue that when i was still Young before the heart attach and six weeks at the Cleveland Clinic that was a 3 1/2 to four hour in and out repair . Ya good enough to tell someone what TOOLS NEEDED ??? I thing not . Do you know all the quirks on ding a lasting rebuild on a D 361 or 407 ?? DOUBT it , Can you set a block up for line bore ?? hows about boring a block?? Ya know how to set up a boring bar or mill a head cut new vale seats in , replace a valve guided and FIT a new vale to the guide ?? Off the top of your pea brain what is the free play on a T/A install ?? ya know how to set the rear end up on a large frame tractor ??? Let me know whey ya know how to do a Cummins tuen up and what a top stop injector sets at and what a Small Cam cummins sets at . Can you tell me what Cam shaft makes a small block for come to life and shave off a second and a half thru the quarter . How to made a 6 pac 440 MO PAR drop a second and a half with no money spent . And y7oui wonder why i Jump on you . You let me know when you carry in your pea brain what i know . How many WINNING Pulling tractors you built , how many all nighters you spent out in a field getting a farmer back up and running before the sun came up . Yea i am a grough old grouch and have no sense of humor . How many test you have taken to get that certificate sayen your now a Master of the art . If i dug out each and everyone and framed them the office here at the house i do not have a wall to put them on. I state what i have done and how and what for and how to and WHO had the issue BEFORE . ya don't like my STORYS easy to solve don't rear my posts as SOME like them . Now had back them one of them camera's and VIDEOED every service call plastered them across U TUBE i might have become a GOD . When i went on a service call i was on that persons DIME , i was there to FIX the issue as fast as i could at a COST they could LIVE with and not have to take out second mortgage on the farm or first born. So let that sink in , some service calls required a couple hours of drive time just getting there and many of nights it was 2-3 Am when i got home covered in Dirt grease Cow manure and not had a bit to eat in 12 hours . can't tell ya how many times i got stopped by the state boys at 2:30 in the morning heading home since it was Closing time at the watering holes . How many nights i spent at the local equipment auction getting stuff up and running for the sale in the morning . So you don't like what i post easy cure ---------- Don't read then as you don't like me on here trust me you would not like me in Person.