850 brake drum removal

[steve in ok]

Good morning, What are some of the ways you have removed the brake drums from an 850 that appear to have never been removed. I got the retaining screws out but the drum doesn't want to budge. Heat?

 

[michford]

Make sure you back off the adjusting screws for the brake shoes. On the backing plate there will be a hotdog shaped rubber plug, or if the plug is gone there is a slotted hole to access the star wheel on the adjuster for the shoes.

 

[Bern]

Heat and beat.

 

[steve in ok]

Yes sir, adjusters backed off. Was wondering if anyone had fashioned a puller of some sort to apply steady pressure while applying heat to the center hub area on the drum. That is were it appears to be rusted together.

 

[steve in ok]

That's what I thought. Thanks

 

[WayneIA]

I use a BFH around the back edge along with BP penatrating oil at the studs and hub. Has worked for me with very minimal damage. That drum will withstand
an awful beating.

 

[michford]

Gotta agree with Bern here with heat and beat. I had an automotive brake drum puller at one time and never had luck with it. I think what the drum puller did was distort the drum just enough to pinch it on the hub even tighter. Picture trying to turn the drum inside out which would wedge it on the hub.

 

[steve in ok]

Have it soaking in penetrating oil now.

 

[steve in ok]

I had not thought about it that way but that sounds likely. I have it soaking and will get the heat after it. Thanks to all for the help.

 

[graham_in_NJ]

I find that the get seized to the center hub. If you heat the drum around the hub (and heat the drum, not the hub), often times you can hear them pop as the drums expand and break loose from the hub.

 

[steve in ok]

That's what I will hope for. Thanks

 

[SkipperII]

I have had some success in the past, smacking the center of the axle with a heavy hammer a few times, the jar seems to break the rust line.
I have also gone around the face of the drum, between the wheel studs with a heavy punch and hammer, with the same effect.

 

[da.bees]

Even after wire brushing and sanding drum surface,I was never able to find
retaining screws in my 841 drums. Heat and beat didn't work,,,,,,,nor did
cussing.

 

[Bern]

Sounds like a rosebud and a bigger hammer were needed there.

 

[Dean]

There aren't any.

Dean

 

[riveroadrat]

I've heard you can heat the drums up good and then throw cold water on them and they'll pop off. Candle wax works good at wicking in there after heating also, and it won't go up in smoke like blaster. It will catch fire if you put it on something hot enough.

 

[rew1953]

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My NAA has 2 threaded holes, after you remove the dir and grease, Figured our these were for jack bolts to push center of drum away from rim. I don't know if these are factory or a later addition. I backed off the shoes, used the jack bolts to put a lot of tension on the drum and sprayed heavily with 50/50 acetone /ATF mixture. Drums popped off after second application of rust solvent. Local dealer advised use this procedure and not the large 3 arm puller over the lip of the drum. He said this compresses the drum and makes it harder to remove. He also told me that the 2 threaded holes were not for jack bolts, but for a Ford special tool that uses a bar forced against the hub while exerting pulling force on the drum

Way too complicated for me and cost for the speciality tool is outrageous. Doesn't Ford realize that the majority of their tractors belong to small farmers who cannot afford the ridiculous prices with speciality tool. They usually get a look at the real thing and make a copy for their own. I just use the jack bolts and solvent.

 

[Sean in PA]

Doesn't Ford realize that the majority of their tractors belong to small farmers who cannot afford the ridiculous prices with speciality tool.

Ford hasn't sold tractors, or tools for them, since the late 1980's when they sold their tractor division to Fiat, who was allowed to use the Ford names on the tractors until the mid-1990's, at which point everything that had been a Ford model/product got rebranded as New Holland because Ford had bought New Holland tractors a few years before selling everything, including New Holland, to Fiat. New Holland does seem to think everything that they sell is made of something more precious than gold though.

 

[da.bees]

NOW YOU TELL ME! LOL

 

[rew1953]

My big blue and white tractor has FORD stamped and labeled in many places. Castings are stamped Fomoco. It was built in Highland Park, Michigan, USA. I think it is a FORD tractor.

It does not have any Fiat markings any was not made in Italy.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 21:26:27 10/28/20)
My big blue and white tractor has FORD stamped and labeled in many places. Castings are stamped Fomoco. It was built in Highland Park, Michigan, USA. I think it is a FORD tractor.

It does not have any Fiat markings any was not made in Italy.

Maybe you should try telling this to your Ford truck dealer. Tell him that you will order two new trucks at full price if he will find the tools for you cheap.

 

[rew1953]

My FORD truck is a 1986 F-150 that had a complete body and cab off frame restoration that took 14 months. I believe I have all the tools to work on anything on the truck. It looks and drives like it just came off the showroom.

 

[Bern]

And your point is??? The fact remains, Ford Motor Company abandoned their tractor division a quarter century ago!

 

[rew1953]

Why did you switch the discussion from tractors to trucks? No argument on the tractors. My 4000 is 50 years old, and still was US made. Did not know exactly when they dropped the tractor division, or even where they are currently made.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 05:45:51 10/29/20)
Why did you switch the discussion from tractors to trucks? No argument on the tractors. My 4000 is 50 years old, and still was US made. Did not know exactly when they dropped the tractor division, or even where they are currently made.

rew, the point is that you are trying to blame a currently operating company for not supporting a division that they sold many years ago. The last Ford tractors were built in 1996, but FoMoCo sold the division way before that. Your only avenue, since you insist that Ford should have the tools for you, is through a still existing Ford company.

 

[rew1953]

Not true. Many of the "specialty tools" shown in the shop manual can be fabricated at home with a little work. My problem is that the recommended tools are priced at an extortion level. My father was in the tool business for 40 plus years and he had the same complaint with the tool manufacturers. When a company required the specialty tools, the tool makers, Snap On, MAC, Stanley, etc, etc automatically hiked the price by a factor of 5. This is first hand knowledge, not guesswork. For example, when GM came out with the ill fated diesel conversions, the shop manual required a C shaped wrench to remove the injector pump. Dad's retail price was about $90. You could take a std long wrench, heat it in a vice, and bend it to a similar shape. The std wrench was about $12.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 12:42:43 10/30/20) Not true. Many of the "specialty tools" shown in the shop manual can be fabricated at home with a little work. My problem is that the recommended tools are priced at an extortion level. My father was in the tool business for 40 plus years and he had the same complaint with the tool manufacturers. When a company required the specialty tools, the tool makers, Snap On, MAC, Stanley, etc, etc automatically hiked the price by a factor of 5. This is first hand knowledge, not guesswork. For example, when GM came out with the ill fated diesel conversions, the shop manual required a C shaped wrench to remove the injector pump. Dad's retail price was about $90. You could take a std long wrench, heat it in a vice, and bend it to a similar shape. The std wrench was about $12.

REW I still can't see your justification. You say that they "ARE PRICED" which is saying that they are still offered for sale. Please tell where they are being sold because some guys would probably buy some. I have made some myself but they are rarely needed. They are usually only handy to have.

 

[rew1953]

(reply to post at 18:40:42 10/30/20)

Snap On , MAC (now Stanley), and Bonnie still carry listings for some of the older "specialty" tools for GM and Ford, but they are special order, long delivery items. I believe they collect the orders and farm them out to a third party. They probably have a minimum quantity to justify a tool run. Price is astronomical. You should offer any you have at double the price you paid and make a killing.

My original point was why do the manufacturers design a piece of equipment that requires a "specialty" tool at outrageous prices to service the equipment? Surely there are enough highly intelligent equipment designers that can produce designs that can be serviced with standard production tools.

You can either agree or disagree. It makes no difference one way or the other and will not change anything. Things are what they are.

If you follow the manufacturers shop manual specifications, you will have spent over $40,000 in "speciality" tools to overhaul a standard diesel engine, you pick the size and brand. No doubt the shops that can afford this investment will produce an engine overhaul of the highest quality that will last many years. However there is a large group of back yard mechanics that also do both in frame and out of frame diesel engine overhauls using basic mics and feeler gauges, and produce decent engine overhauls that give good value. Maybe not the quality and service standards of the shops , but at a price that won't break the bank for the average farmer.

Again, everyone has an opinion. One is just as good as another and does not change reality. The average farmer will attempt his own repairs, improvising when necessary, to keep his equipment running, or lose the farm to the bank and wind up flipping burgers with all the college grads.

 

[FarmingEngineer]

The designers usually are highly intelligent which is why they make a design that requires a specialty tool. They require specialty tools for two reasons. The first reason is to produce designs that reduce production costs. If they can reduce unit cost by even a small amount, that adds up rapidly on a large production run. The second reason they require specialty tools is to discourage owners from working on the vehicle. Poor owner repairs lead to a large number of problems which the owners then blame on the manufacturer rather than their own incompetence. This then leads to said owners telling everyone that the vehicle is not reliable which hurts the reputation and sales of the vehicle.

 

[rew1953]

That makes sense from the manufacturers perspective, but is discouraging for those of us who are forced to do our own repairs.

I have looked at a couple of the newer used vehicles and decided my next new to me will have to be pre 1985 where I can still recognize the motor and associated parts. I hate to pop the hood and not even see the motor on the newer models.

A friend has a new Prius. Hard to believe there are actually 2 motors in that little space. I would not even attempt to work on that one.

Guess I am old and set in my ways, but give me a Ford 300 in line 6 or Chevy 350 any day. Simple motors that are easy to work on.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 19:35:11 10/31/20) The designers usually are highly intelligent which is why they make a design that requires a specialty tool. They require specialty tools for two reasons. The first reason is to produce designs that reduce production costs. If they can reduce unit cost by even a small amount, that adds up rapidly on a large production run. The second reason they require specialty tools is to discourage owners from working on the vehicle. Poor owner repairs lead to a large number of problems which the owners then blame on the manufacturer rather than their own incompetence. This then leads to said owners telling everyone that the vehicle is not reliable which hurts the reputation and sales of the vehicle.

FarmingEngineer, the topic of the Ford Nuday tools is actually a pretty frequent one here. There seems to be nearly universal agreement that the Nuday tools are rarely really NEEDED for a job but just make it quicker and easier. I have had the Dual Power on my 9000 apart twice, with no problems despite having none of the I believe three Nuday tools in the manual. We all know that at dealers and most repair shops it is all about speed in getting the job done properly, in order to get the unit back to the owner. This is true especially with farm equipment due to the seasons. Though expensive, the Nuday tools were always available to customers, many of whom have their own well equipped shops with very competent mechanics. Ford was maintaining good customer relations as opposed to discouraging owners from making their own repairs.

 

[steve in ok]

Update, thanks for the help. A little heat and not to much beating and they came right off. New brake shoes and hardware and I now have good brakes. Thanks again for the input.