850 not holding charge?

[Belcain]

Hello smart and helpful tractor folks.
Sorry for the long post but I'm puzzled and have a lot of thoughts about this.
I have a 1955 Ford 850 (my first tractor) that has some problem(s) with the charging system. Tractor starts fine, starts fine several more times then all of a sudden, dead battery. No warning like slow cranking, just dead and wont crank. It will trip the starter solenoid or relay (clicking noise). Makes me wonder if its not suddenly discharging somehow? I've only had the tractor for a few months and only use it once or twice a week out in the woods - anyway I'm sick of charging the battery when I'd rather be pulling trees and stuff, had to do that a few times now.
It has a 12v coil and I got a new 12v batter a couple months ago. It is set up as negative ground (thats how it runs) so I guess somebody changed the wiring to 12v since I understand the original 55 850 was 6v. Is it possible that its still a 6v "system" or generator with a 12v battery and coil?
BTW it has no lights although I will put some on when I feel good about the charging problem. I did clean and bright all the contacts on the gen and got new battery cables, also tightened the belt recently. I have not messed with any of the stuff "under the dash" such as the VR or any of the wiring. The Amp meter appears to work and shows a high charge in the +25 range after starting then about 15 - 30 minutes later it will be down to almost 0. I sort of feel like thats an issue - When the tractor starts it only cranks over for 1 second then its running. Does that actually take a lot of juice out of a battery? I feel like it should only charge for a couple minutes tops..(?)

I have the service manual and would like to test the system but the picture of the gen is very dark and I cant read which post is which on the gen. Looking at the gen I see three posts, two sort of near the bottom towards the back and one on top which is bigger I think. Can somebody tell me which post is which so maybe I can start to test it?

Can I/should I just get a inexpensive alternator with attached regulator?

Thanks.

Belcain -

 

[WayneIA]

This sounds like the battery cables need to be cleaned up on the starter selenoid and at the starter. Could be a bad connection in the starter. Sounds like the charging system is working fine.

 

[showcrop]

Belcain, You give a lot of good information! It sounds to me like you have a twelve volt battery driving a 6 volt starter. One of my old 4 cyls. is set up this way. So it would of course turn fast and start quick. It sounds like your tractor's generator is probably the original 6 volt which will give you somewhere around 9. But it would take awhile to get it up there, and you are still at only around 9 and so your twelve volt battery is down on reserve. It sounds like for your use that the best idea is to complete the conversion with an alternator.

 

[souNdguy]

what we really need to know is if it has a generator or alternator... and if alternator.. what type.. internal or external reg.. if internal.. 1 or 3 wire hookup?

also.. what does the ammeter say when running? discharge?

soundguy

 

[old]

You first need to know what you have so you can tell us so we can then help you. Over the years people do funny things to tractors and only 50% of the stuff is correct and the other 50% just makes them run for a bit. Yes you can take say a Delco 10SI alternator, one made for say a 1980 Chev pickup and put it on and wire it up and maybe fix your problem if your problem is the charging system that is. That alternator will cost less then $50 by the way

 

[Belcain]

Thanks Soundguy

Like I mentioned, I think it has a generator. Maybe original? It looks just like what I've seen in pictures. The unit has three posts (three wire). I have a manual for the tractor but the picture is very dark so I cant tell which post is which to try jumping and testing. All the wires run up to what must be the VR attached to the steering column.

I dont know how to tell really if its an alternator or generator though. Its all very rusty so I cant read anything on any of the parts.

 

[Belcain]

This sounds like the battery cables need to be cleaned up on the starter selenoid and at the starter. Could be a bad connection in the starter. Sounds like the charging system is working fine.


I got new battery cables, new battery, and I cleaned all the connections on the generator and solenoid.
The starter is fine, how would a bad connection in the starter cause any of my problems?

Thanks

Belcain

 

[Dean]

If it's iron, round and painted or rusted, it's a generator.

If it's aluminum, it's an alternator.

Dean