851 Troubles

[SIROTTO]

Long time listener, first time caller. 851 powermaster with Wagoner Iron works loader. Gas. Will not start. Followed all procedures I could find here and downloaded Ford manual. Everything new ignition, confirmed spark, rebuilt carb have wet plugs. Will not fire no matter what I try. Did a compression test . From steering wheel to Radiator in psi dry and cold. 150, 90, 60, 150. I know the middle two are low but not low enough too keep it from firing. Need some ideas, at my witts end.

 

[Sean in PA]

Sounds like a blown head gasket between cylinders 2 & 3. BTW - Cylinder 1 is the one closest to the radiator.

 

[Jim.ME]

Long time listener, first time caller. 851 powermaster with Wagoner Iron works loader. Gas. Will not start. Followed all procedures I could find here and downloaded Ford manual. Everything new ignition, confirmed spark, rebuilt carb have wet plugs. Will not fire no matter what I try. Did a compression test . From steering wheel to Radiator in psi dry and cold. 150, 90, 60, 150. I know the middle two are low but not low enough too keep it from firing. Need some ideas, at my witts end.

Welcome to the forums.

What is the history of the tractor? New to you? got it not running and trying to bring it to life? or you have had it a while and it quit? Have you checked timing?

 

[SIROTTO]

New to me. Had a miss under load and higher RPM. Already had 12v positive ground done. First day I had it started missing real bad and died while driving. Replaced coil to 12v and bypassed resistor, new cap, rotor, points and condenser.

 

[Destroked 450]

Compression on #3 is to low and #2 isn’t good, head gasket is probably leaking between the two cylinders
To eliminate the resistor you had to use a internal resistance coil, if you used a straight 12 volt coil it’ll burn up the points and possibly damage the condenser
Did you make sure to reinstall the spring clip under the rotor button

 

[SIROTTO]

Yes sir, internal on the coil and new clip with rotor. Could those two bum cylinders keep it from firing? It will back fire out the carb every once in awhile while cranking. I did time the distributer using the flywheel and verified cly 1 was at TDC, closest to the rad. Then twisted the distributer till 1 snapped.

 

[Jim.ME]

Compression on #3 is to low and #2 isn’t good, head gasket is probably leaking between the two cylinders
To eliminate the resistor you had to use a internal resistance coil, if you used a straight 12 volt coil it’ll burn up the points and possibly damage the condenser
Did you make sure to reinstall the spring clip under the rotor button

"if you used a straight 12 volt coil it’ll burn up the points and possibly damage the condenser"

I guess we may differ on what a straight 12-volt coil is. To me a straight 12-volt coil is one that is properly wound and has the correct internal resistance to stand alone on a 12-volt system. If a coil is marked with such as "12-volts resistor required", it is a six-volt coil as was used on early systems with a ballast resistor, not a straight 12-volt coil. I think it was a marketing poly for those who needed to see the coil was for use in a 12-volt system that has a resistor. The "You know a 6-volt coil won't work on a 12-volt system", syndrome.

 

[Jim.ME]

Yes sir, internal on the coil and new clip with rotor. Could those two bum cylinders keep it from firing? It will back fire out the carb every once in awhile while cranking. I did time the distributer using the flywheel and verified cly 1 was at TDC, closest to the rad. Then twisted the distributer till 1 snapped.

It may not cure your problem, which may well be due to internal issues with cylinders 2 and 3, but after initial timing as you did, it should be timed with a timing light so the advance can be checked as well.

 

[Steve in IL]

New to me. Had a miss under load and higher RPM. Already had 12v positive ground done. First day I had it started missing real bad and died while driving. Replaced coil to 12v and bypassed resistor, new cap, rotor, points and condenser.

12v positive ground, or negative ground?

 

[SIROTTO]

Jim, will confirm with timing light tomorrow. Burned the battery down today.

 

[SIROTTO]

Positive ground neighbor steve

 

[Mad Farmer]

My cousins NAA still ran well enough with a blown head gasket ( 0 psi #2-3) to drive it out of the garage so we could degrease it before we tore it down. Try putting a jumper from the battery to the coil to eliminate wiring problem between those two points.

 

[SIROTTO]

Thanks Mad, I will in the morning and report back

 

[Eman85]

Everything new ignition, confirmed spark,
I believe this is where your problem is. Good confirmed new ignition will not wet it's spark plugs unless the gas is no good.

 

[SIROTTO]

So you think it's still in the ignition? I agree just want another opinion

 

[Steve in IL]

So you think it's still in the ignition? I agree just want another opinion

My quick fuel/ignition test is to (using an old spray bottle) spray some good fuel into the carb intake (take air cleaner hose off), and try to start. Initially with no choke… slowly add choke as cranking. If it doesn’t start for a bit, it’s ignition.

 

[Eman85]

So you think it's still in the ignition? I agree just want another opinion

You stated you confirmed spark, how did you confirm good spark? A spark tester set at 1/4" is confirmation. Wet spark plugs indicates plenty of fuel but no bang.

 

[Ozlander]

I fact that he thought the #1 cylinder was at the firewall may be the reason it won't run.
Check the plug wires are on the right plugs.

 

[SIROTTO]

Jumped wire from battery to coil and no differance. Put a timing light on it, marked flywheel at 4. cranked, timing light was working but so far out of time 4 degree wouldnt even show up in the window. Set static when number 1 popped off. How to I get this close enough to even dial it in? Almost seems to be 180 out but I know thats its not possible.

 

[SIROTTO]

I fact that he thought the #1 cylinder was at the firewall may be the reason it won't run.
Check the plug wires are on the right plugs.

No Sir, #1 is at the rad