855 Cummins Question

[Howard H.]

We're getting water in the oil on a Versatile tractor with an 855 Cummins in it.

The water leaks in while it is sitting.

I know the oil cooler can leak and we had a cylinder cavitate through once before - but thought we'd been watching the coolant anticavitation level pretty closely the last few years...

Any ideas on where the water might be coming from??

Can the water pump leak into the crankcase??

Thanks for any insight,
Howard

 

[dieselpaul]

water pump cannot leak to crankcase. oil cooler will usually put oil in cooling system. problem sounds like liner o-rings, or pinholes into cyl. (problems in cyl.head area usually will show up more running)

 

[Howard H.]

We've got 6-8 years of fairly steady use on the engine (bought it as a new overhaul straight from Cummins) - if you were going in to replace the O-rings (if that is all it is), would you do a complete overhaul??

Or just put it all back together?

I know a kit is only $900 or so, but it isn't really burning any oil and runs good and strong...

How sensitive is a Cummins to the cavitation?? I know we had the anti-cavitation level almost too strong right at the first - according to the little test kit...

Howard

 

[george md]

Howard,
Having rebuilt many of those engines , most
times it is either a sleeve seal ( o ring ) or
perferated liner . Oil cooler can do it but
rarely and if so it will be one of the orings
in the end acting like a check valve and not
letting the oil up but the residual radiator
pressure pushing the water down. Drop the pan
and watch to see where the drips are coming
from , you can put a few pounds of pressure in
the radiator but sometimes that will push a
sleeve seal tight and make it not leak .

george

 

[dieselpaul]

to see where coolant is coming from, you can pull oil pan--look for the drops-damaged liners will trickle down cyl bore, o-rings will show up on od. sometimes necessary to turn engine (by hand) pressure pump on rad. can sometimes help-sometimes seal it off-also, you might pull block plate on right rear of engine---where block heater is if equipped--look for a straight line of pits on liner-how much to do to engine now is up to your situation. of course its best to do all-but i have had to replace 1 piston-liner assy. to finish a job. thats the neat thing about 3 cyl heads. after the pressure was off & tore engine completly down, we found same thing getting ready to happen on rest of cyls--at least in-frame ohaul is prob. in order. good luck-paul`

 

[guido]

Hey Howard.
Dieselpaul is whight. With the pan off, not a 10 minute joB! you will be able to see if the liners are leaking, specially if you pressurise the cooling system. Oil cooler usually put oil in the water, oil pressure being greater then coolant pressure.The water pump can put water in the oil pan, you will have to have the oil pan off to see it as well. if you need to run the engine loosening the radiator cap will stop most of the coolant leak, chect the temp. af the engine as you use it. Remember if you pressurise the cooling system make shure the the pressure is only 10% above the pressure cap rating!
Guido.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Water pump will Not put water in the pan on an 855.Usually cavitated liners or leaking liner seals.In the cheap old days, used to pull the sleeves and rotate,and reinstall and let cavitate on new surface.

 

[trucker40]

The older Cummins motors like before 1987 and even some made after 1987 used a liner that was easy to get ate up by cavitation.Dont remember the number on that,its been too long ago,they were black looking right out of the box.Then right around in there they put some coating on them,helped a little,think that was in the 1990s.Then they came out with a shiny looking liner thats different that I know is in N-14s.Those will go 750 thousand miles or a million in a big truck and not cavitate as long as you test the water with those strips or change your water filter every second oil change.The new liners meant you had to have something in the block bored out.That costs about 450 dollars I read somewhere on the Internet as I was looking for the same thing the other day.Plus you had to take the block out and take it to a shop somewhere to have it done.If its a Big Cam IV motor it might have those kind of liners in it allready if its newer than 1987.I dont know if tractors have the same motors as trucks,but its not a lot different.I know they used different pistons,rings,whatever else I dont know.They had special rings for dusty conditions,and something was different about the pistons but dont remember what.
Getting water in your oil could be o-rings,but a way to tell maybe if its a cavitated liner is if you have black trails down your stack.Also it might smoke white all the time its running if its up high enough in the liner to where it would try and burn with the fuel.If it is missing I would say its a liner.
When you got it with a fresh overhaul there could be a record of that and maybe you can tell by the parts list what liners are in it,if there is a record of it.Another way might be to use the CPL number,engine number,model number, on the tag on the front of the block,take it to a parts man and see if he can print you out a parts list for that CPL and see what number the liners on that CPL is,ask the parts man if its the old black looking ones or not.Like the others said its not hard to see if its liner o-rings,drop pan,if waters coming from outside of sleeve its o-rings,inside of sleeve its sleeves,not seeing any water coming from the sleeves is probly oil cooler.Water pump cant get water in the oil.

 

[guido]

Hey TRKR.
Thanks for keeping me straight. I looked at my post and you are right!
I had one engine that leaked water from the front of the engine at the water pump jacket, I did not finish my sentence I guess. The water Jacket in
the area of the water pump was leaking into the front cover and into the pan. Cavitation was a real problem with that engine.
Guido.