8N AGAIN

[Ken in IND]

Thanks to the guys that replied to the post below the first time. We pulled the head on this motor and it wasn't only cracked but had a piece broken out at the back cylinder. We put in a good used head today and started putting it back together. When working on bolting the hood on the front we noticed a slight drip coming from the small hole on the side of the carberator. Upon checking it out it was anti-freeze. What could cause this problem? We stopped buttoning it back up as we are concerned as this is where the water was leaking when the old head was busted. Could this be a cracked block as well as the head being busted? When we took the head off we turned the motor over by hand, all pistons and valves were working and there didn't appear to be any damage to the piston(s) other than a very small ding on the back one which cleaned up with emery cloth. We had put in fresh oil, filter and anti freeze but have not seen any anti freeze in the oil. We did not turn the motor over as we were waiting to see what the problem may be before doing so and haven't even put gas back into the tank yet. This carb hole seems to drip anti freeze ever so lightly but it is diffinately green anti freeze. Where to start now? We also dumped some diesel fuel in the crankcase and let it set a few days then drained to try to remove the antifreeze and foamy stuff from the original broken head problem.


My cousin just called me to ask why his 8N would have water in the carberator. He was brush hogging trails in a grown up wood lot about 3/4 mile from his house. he said that the tractor all of a sudden was running wide open and he couldn't get it to idle down. He got to looking and finally found a large stick had unhooked the linkage to the governor. He hooked it back up but then noticed the radiator was puffing steam so he headed to the house with the tractor. He got there with it running just fine and shut it down. He checked the water and it needed about a gallon which he added then checked the oil to find it was full and not even dark. He then tried to start it and it would not start until he ran the battery down cranking it. He noticed the bowl on the carberator was full of water and he drained it out until fuel ran free. Thinking there may be water in the gas he bought some water dry and added it to the gas tank and tried to start it this morning after charging the battery. He states that it won't start and won't turn over but only clicks like it is bound up. He also said that he had to add more water and it was in the carberator again. What could be the cause of wter in the carberator? This motor was completely rebuilt about 5 years ago and probably doesn't have close to 100 hours on it.

 

[souNdguy]

coolant in the carb?

I think I'd be looking at the manifold studs...

soundguy

 

[Ken in IND]

Yes, coolant in the carb has me baffled as I don't know why it would be there. What should be checked on the manifold studs, the torque?

 

[elmersooner]

since the head is new, most likely cause is probably the manifold studs, maybe someone else can jump in here--i have sealed the threads with silicone, but believe that teflon or other products may be better, drain water and remove the manifold and look for where it is coming from.

 

[souNdguy]

dude.. the studs go intot he water area.. if there is a leak around the stud it can go into the manifold.. and from the manifold the combustion chamber OR the carb.. take yer pic

gasket, manifold, studs.. check it all.

studs might be loose or waisted.

general rule..Use thread pucky on wet studs.. no pucky on blind bolts or studs.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Hobo,NC]

I have a I.D.,,, remove the manifold and you will see were the coolant is coming from....trace it from their,,,, No guess work involved... I personal don't believe a manifold stud will leak coolant into the manifold,,, if it will you have more problems than coolant leaking around a stud...

Try this cuzz the manifold is coming off,,, as you take the stud nutz off (one at a time if no coolant tighten it back up and move to a nutter) look for coolant leaking from behind the nutz,,, if its a leak'n stud you just took the restriction off,,, If so you also did a pizz poor job of sealing the manifold,,, Leak'n suds is a pattern guru answer its on the test...

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

If you are down on water and the motor won't turn over remove the plugs. Then see if it will turn over. Sounds like you might have water in a cylinder.

 

[Ken in IND]

That is what happened before we took the head off and found it broken. Now after replacing the head and filling it back up with fluids we found a slight coolant drip from the carb. Gonna remove the manifold to see where the coolant in the carb is originating. Didn't even want to turn it over until we found this problem.

 

[NoNewParts]

coolant in the carb of an N engine not yet started...
crack in the deck
warped head
head gasket leaking into an open intake valve.
(easiest path right now.....if you start it, coolant will then
be in the oil too)

 

[Ken in IND]

The head was supposed to have been a good used one not cracked or warped. It looked in great condition when we received it from the new/used tractor parts dealer. Of course a new head gasket was put on with the head. Are you referring to a crack in the deck as the block? This coolant leak is a very small drip from the hole on the outside of the carb and is definately coolant as it's green. I see no leaking from around the head or the gasket on the outside. I didn't want to turn the motor over and take the chance of the coolant getting back into the oil pan. When my cousin gets back we will drain the coolant and pull the manifold to see if we can find where it is leaking.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 15:21:27 09/28/11) The head was supposed to have been a good used one not cracked or warped. It looked in great condition when we received it from the new/used tractor parts dealer. Of course a new head gasket was put on with the head. Are you referring to a crack in the deck as the block? This coolant leak is a very small drip from the hole on the outside of the carb and is definately coolant as it's green. I see no leaking from around the head or the gasket on the outside. I didn't want to turn the motor over and take the chance of the coolant getting back into the oil pan. When my cousin gets back we will drain the coolant and pull the manifold to see if we can find where it is leaking.

BTDT,,, once you determine the cylinder that's leaking look for a crack,,, mine was in the combustion chamber part of the head... I missed it the first go round...

https://photos.yesterdaystractors.c...arameter=hobo,nc&mode=All&what=pieces

 

[souNdguy]

he might want to refill the rad too, as it may have already leaked down past the studs, and otherwise might not be evident now.

that and a coolant system pressure tester will help.

soundguy

 

[NoNewParts]

(quoted from post at 11:21:27 09/28/11) The head was supposed to have been a good used one not cracked or warped. It looked in great condition when we received it from the new/used tractor parts dealer. Of course a new head gasket was put on with the head. Are you referring to a crack in the deck as the block? This coolant leak is a very small drip from the hole on the outside of the carb and is definately coolant as it's green. I see no leaking from around the head or the gasket on the outside. I didn't want to turn the motor over and take the chance of the coolant getting back into the oil pan. When my cousin gets back we will drain the coolant and pull the manifold to see if we can find where it is leaking.

yes a crack in the surface of the block-deck
or in your new head
like Hobo says, when they are taken apart, cracks are very hard to see
on these old engines that have so many scratches.
and when apart, the crack is usually tightly closed.
(looks like a scratch)
when torqued down, the crack spreads open........
before/if you tear it back down, do a leak-down test first,
to know which area/cylinder to look at first.
(bubbles in the radiator- fill it to the brim to see)
hopefully, it's just the head gasket...........
good luck

 

[Ken in IND]

Don't have the equipment to do a leak down test. I'm thinking we will drain the oil and the ante freeze so as to slavage it and then refill the radiator with plain ole water before we start to tear it back apart. I don't want all the ante freeze back into the pan and everything. Will start with the manifold as we never took it off when we replaced the head. We did look the head over and even buffed the gasket surface and it looked like a brand new one. A new all metal head gasket was installed with the head so I don't know how the gasket could be bad as the motor was never turned over. The old head was not only cracked but had a piece completely broken out of it right where the indentation started for the piston on the back cylinder and I believe my cousin said the first two cylinders had coolant in them as well. Looks like we will be taking the hood back off and start removing stuff again.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 21:42:43 09/28/11) Don't have the equipment to do a leak down test. I'm thinking we will drain the oil and the ante freeze so as to slavage it and then refill the radiator with plain ole water before we start to tear it back apart. I don't want all the ante freeze back into the pan and everything. Will start with the manifold as we never took it off when we replaced the head. We did look the head over and even buffed the gasket surface and it looked like a brand new one. A new all metal head gasket was installed with the head so I don't know how the gasket could be bad as the motor was never turned over. The old head was not only cracked but had a piece completely broken out of it right where the indentation started for the piston on the back cylinder and I believe my cousin said the first two cylinders had coolant in them as well. Looks like we will be taking the hood back off and start removing stuff again.

If you don't wanna take the manifold off (I would not) just pull the plugs and look into the hole :wink: if you do not see anything spin the engine over with out the plugs if you see coolant the heads got to come off....

 

[elmersooner]

redneck leakdown tester---find old inner tube--cut to fit over radiator fill'em up tube, clamp with hose clamp. apply air to schrader valve doohickey til enough pressure to barely inflate inner tube. works for small projects.

 

[Ken in IND]

I should mention again that what we had seen as far as coolant in the carb was from the little hole on the side of it. I have no idea of what this very small hole is for but when we first filled er up with coolant and was starting the front hood bolt on that side I noticed a slight drip there. When we pulled the drain plug from the bottom of the carb a small amount drained out. We used an air hose to blow the hole out but it appeared that coolant continued to appear from that hole. We left the drain plug off the bottom of the carb and put a coffee can under it to see how much would leak out over night. I just talked to my cousin who went out after he got home and looked only to find about a tablespoon in the bottom of the coffee can but this hole still has coolant in it. Could this be coolant left over from when the old head busted and filled the engine and carb up with coolant? He checked the oil and said the level was as we left it yesterday and didn't see any green coolant in it. Do you think we may be paranoid at seeing coolant anywhere near the carb after it took a drenching from the old busted head? Sure would hate to fill the cylinder(s) and crankcase with coolant AGAIN by turning it over but from what my cousin said he just saw I'm thinking this may possibly be residual coolant from the old busted head.

 

[NovaNewfie]

This may be a silly question but when you had the head off did you remove the manifold and carb and clean them out? If not it may be left over from before you changed the head.

 

[Ken in IND]

That is NOT a silly question and in fact what I am now thinking may be the situation as we did NOT remove the manifold or the carb when we put the new head on. There has not been much of any great accummulation of coolant in the container we put under the carb yesterday up till this evening. This little hole on the carb seems to continue to have coolant in it and a slight drip and not much if any from the drain hole in the bottom of the carb now.

 

[NovaNewfie]

If it was me I'd at least take the carb off (easy) and clean it out and see if there is any leaking from the manifold. I'd suggest you take a hair dryer or a heat gun and dry it out. I use a torch which is quicker but not always safer and its harder on paint.
Its easier than taking the hood and the head back off which might still not solve your problem.