8N Cold Weather Starting

My 8N is one cold-blooded sob. When it's cold, the starter bendix kicks out immediately when it goes "putt-putt" but doesn't catch, and I have to wait while it whines/winds down to hit the starter again--and again, and again, and again.

My question is this: Can I use some sort of starter fluid/ether to help the engine catch quicker in cold weather? (It always starts quickly when the weather's warm). The beast always starts in cold weather, but it sometimes takes 5-7 minutes of fooling with it. A couple of times I've put the truck next to it so I can jump it and prevent the onboard battery from draining. Jumping also certainly helps the "liveliness" of the starter cranking.

If I use ether, where do I spray it?

The machine is a 1948 8N, 12-volt conversion, alternator.

Thanks.
 
Yes, you can safely use starting fluid on a low compression gas engine. Spray it directly into the carb throat.



But I suspect you have other problems.



Hard starting in cold weather has a lot of likely causes. So take your time can read through this list. Oftentimes you will discover multiple problems.

No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful; not a trickle charger, but a float charger. A battery charger, even a "trickle" charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery. I use float chargers for two reasons: battery longevity and a sure start. Battery sulfation occurs at a specific rate at "X" temperature.
Over time, sulfation reduces battery performance and eventually its effects are irreversible. Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate current. Using a float charger significantly reduces sulfation. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its power when the temperature falls below zero. A fully charged battery will not freeze until -76?F; however, a fully discharged battery can start to freeze at 32?F. So??keep the battery fully charged! If you have a digital volt meter, 6.03 volts on a 6 volt battery and 12.06 volts on a 12 volt battery is only a 25% charge! I use Deltran battery tenders on all the tractors, the golf cart & 29 Ford. Pricey, but they work & have in-lines fuses. All are hard wired to the vehicles. (*see below)


If you need to jump it, see tip # 43.


Clean grounds & battery terminals are always important. Don?t forget to loosen the starter from the block (see tip # 36) and polish the block & all starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground.



If you can?t remember the last time you replaced the battery cables, it?s time to do it. Just because the terminals are clean doesn?t mean there is no corrosion under the insulation. And, this is another case where size matters (see tip # 41)



A charged battery, clean grounds & new cables aren?t going to mean much if the tractor needs a tune-up. At a minimum, every fall, remove the cap, check the points for pitting or burning, re-gap them & put a dab of lube on the cam. (BTW?..if you?ve wondered why some folks get years of use out of a set of points??.this is one of the reasons). See tips 66, 67 & 68.



Things that aren?t all that important in warm weather become serious when it gets cold?like timing. A few degrees of timing either way at 60 or 70* isn?t likely to result in a ?no-start? situation. Well, it can at 10 or 20*. Check the timing! Yes, you can set the timing on a front distributor.



Distributor gaskets are important on a sidemount & critical on a frontmount. As is the gasket under the coil. Just like with the battery cables?.if you can?t remember when you replaced the gaskets, do it this year.



Push the clutch in when you start the engine (tip # 29)



Oil viscosity can make a difference. If the tractor is going to be consistently operated below 20* F, switch to SAE 10w30; at 0* go to SAE 5w30.



Pull the air cleaner cup & check for ice.



Use a fuel stabilizer. I?ve used Marine Sta-Bil for years, but recently switched to Star Tron because Sta-Bil has a 1 year shelf life.



This tip won?t make it start easier, but it will make it run better: turn the main jet out ? to 1 full turn for cold weather operating. Cold air is denser so you need a richer mixture.



While each N has its own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is a gravity fuel system on a low compression engine; it is easily flooded by too much choke.



Try this:



Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.



If you find out it will not start w/o excessive choking, you have problems.



If you flood it, the plugs are fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. Replace the plugs. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.



Folks who live in places a lot colder than I do here in VA will argue about battery blankets or magnetic oil pan heaters as compared to lower radiator hose heaters or dipstick heaters. While the consensus leans toward lower radiator hose heaters, I can?t offer a personal observation; the only thing I?ve ever used to heat an engine was a 100w light bulb laid against the intake manifold. Freeze plug heaters are difficult to find for N?s because of the limited space in the water jacket. Magnetic oil pan heaters on the intake manifold will help as well. And after you get it started, it will not run as well as it should in cold weather if the engine never gets to it's proper operating temperature. Use a thermostat! See tip # 25.
75 Tips
 
I?d be more concerned with the battery?s condition than the specific manufacturer/model. How old is the battery? Have you tested the battery voltage?
How long does the tractor go between runs, do you run it long enough to charge up the battery, and do you apply any charging during storage periods,
etc... Just adding a larger battery isn?t necessarily going to improve things.
 

Thanks, Bruce. I've done all of the maintenance you suggest. I'll try larger battery CCA and ether.

Blanket and/or halogen light may help. Looks like people's experiences with Katz lower radiator hose heaters (at least the reviews on Amazon) are pretty poor.
 
(quoted from post at 13:19:29 12/26/19)
Thanks, Bruce. I've done all of the maintenance you suggest. I'll try larger battery CCA and ether.

Blanket and/or halogen light may help. Looks like people's experiences with Katz lower radiator hose heaters (at least the reviews on Amazon) are pretty poor.

I am not a big believer in consumer product reviews. Happy customers seldom post good reviews but unsatisfied and just plain jerks live to complain in public. In other words the bad reviews might represent .01 percent of sales but you will never know that looking at the online reviews.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 11:04:55 12/26/19) My 8N is one cold-blooded sob. When it's cold, the starter bendix kicks out immediately when it goes "putt-putt" but doesn't catch, and I have to wait while it whines/winds down to hit the starter again--and again, and again, and again.

My question is this: Can I use some sort of starter fluid/ether to help the engine catch quicker in cold weather? (It always starts quickly when the weather's warm). The beast always starts in cold weather, but it sometimes takes 5-7 minutes of fooling with it. A couple of times I've put the truck next to it so I can jump it and prevent the onboard battery from draining. Jumping also certainly helps the "liveliness" of the starter cranking.

If I use ether, where do I spray it?

The machine is a 1948 8N, 12-volt conversion, alternator.

Thanks.

I'm surprised no one mentioned installing a modern-style "Folo-thru" starter drive that will stay engaged and cranking even after the engine fires a couple of times, 'til it actually starts.
 
Caleb,All the things that Bruce said will help but untill you swap that lazy rotten starter drive that keeps kicken out before it starts.
Replace it with the new improved clutch type drive that will stay engaged till it starts will be a game changer.
Remove the starter change the drive,check brushes,shine up mounting surfaces with some sand paper.
wm_52-11350C.jpg

Drive
 
All the suggestions are great. However, what I've been using on my '50 8N, 6-volt, generator, for more than 40 years of cold weather starting works well: Fuel on, switch off, pull choke out. Push starter button, turn engine 4 compression strokes. Push in choke, switch on, push starter button. When engine starts, be ready to use choke to keep it running for the first few seconds. Our winters get to -20 F and colder, but it always starts.
cvphoto378.jpg


cvphoto379.jpg
 
I would recommend you do a very deep cleaning on your battery terminals and at the solenoid and starter. I would also recommend when you shut it off close the fuel bowl and when it starts to sputter shut if off. I have always had better luck by doing that except when I put on a new carb. to me it doesn't sound like you have a starter/bendixproblem but a voltage problem due to when you jump it it is better.
 
Mildly off-topic, but I completely agree with you, particularly on Amazon. What I read instead of the points based reviews are the complaints about
specific problems, so I can have an idea of potential common failure points. Otherwise, reviews on most sites aren?t very useful, for the reasons you
mentioned, but also because a whole cottage industry of false reviews and reviews rigging has cropped up.

In this case, I don?t see enough information from the reviews to really find them helpful regarding the heater. It?s one I?ve been considering for my own
tractor, as she lives outside and thus is sometimes cranky in the cold, but she has access to an outlet.
 
(quoted from post at 20:07:38 12/26/19) Mildly off-topic, but I completely agree with you, particularly on Amazon. What I read instead of the points based reviews are the complaints about
specific problems, so I can have an idea of potential common failure points. Otherwise, reviews on most sites aren?t very useful, for the reasons you
mentioned, but also because a whole cottage industry of false reviews and reviews rigging has cropped up.
That's exactly what I do with Amazon reviews. It's important to look at what the negative reviews are complaining about.

In one case, there were a bunch of one and two point reviews complaining that the box was damaged during shipping even though the product was in good shape. Well, I don't care about the box, so I discounted those and ordered anyway. My box was not damaged, but upon opening it I could see why the product survives rough handling. It was very well protected inside the outside box with styrofoam between the box and the surface of the product.

In another, the bad reviews were about the product being dead on arrival. That one I didn't order.
 
Non-starting issues are 99.98% electrically related. Starter motor clicking is a good sign the battery is severely discharged or just plain dead. Poor/incorrect
wiring is the 2nd related issue. Your tractor starts (no pun intended) with the power plant (battery) and if it will not sustain a full charge under load -cold weather
is when it gets affected the most- you will never get it started, only end up with draining the battery down, if not dead already, and/or flooding the plugs. Take your
battery to a trusty starer shop or auto parts supplier and he can bench test it with his machine for a good or bad reading. Simply charging it isn't the fix. If it
won't meet the specific gravity data no amount of charging will fix it. It's bad so get a new one. Whether you are using the OEM 6V/POS GRN system or have a 12V/NEG
GRN job, the wiring must be correct in order to function properly. Once you verify your battery is good and fully charged, invest in a float charger, NOT a trickle
charger. One popular, reliable brand is the DELTRAN BATTERY TENDER. When not in use, you can do for your tractor a huge favor and keep it fully charged so it is ready
when needed. The worse thing that depletes battery life is the constant charging and discharging. A float charger will keep it at full charge. Keeping your tractor PM
up is essential as well. I've had my N's parked outside, tarped out of the elements, and also in barns and sheds and never had cold weather starting issues. It
probably isn't your starter so get the battery checked first and if you take it to your trusty starter/alternator/generator guy at the same time, he can also motor
test it as well.

BATTERY TENDER JR (6V) BY DELTRAN:
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Tim Daley(MI)
 

I would agree with those who suggested a new starter drive.

In addition the choke is very important for cold weather starts. If you pull off the inlet air tube running from the air cleaner to the carb inlet you should be able to see the choke butter fly valve. Have someone pull the choke rod and watch the butter fly valve. It should rotate approximately 90 degrees and close off completely. Typically there is a little bypass window with a spring loaded flapper valve. Check to verify the flapper valve is presence and also closes off.

I have used ether on 8Ns by spraying a whiff into the air cleaner inlet (louvered opening) on the right side of the hood. Give it a whiff while cranking the engine - don't over do it. The ether is in part a replacement for a faulty choke in that it provides vaporized fuel to the engine.

You stated that the cranking speed is greatly improved when you jump start from your truck. This would be normal if it is after you have discharged the tractor battery from repeated attempts at starting the tractor. However, it should not be the case if the truck battery is connected before discharging the tractor battery. You are not looking for cranking speed to start the engine - but rather proper voltage to the ignition system. Slow cranking speed suggests low battery voltage, bad battery/connections etc. Regardless of 12 volt or 6 volt systems, the coil needs the proper voltage to fire the plugs.
 
I have very good luck with Katz lower radiator hose heater. Plug it in for 1 hour at -20F and top of engine is warm. Starts right up.
 
(quoted from post at 11:30:34 12/26/19) All the suggestions are great. However, what I've been using on my '50 8N, 6-volt, generator, for more than 40 years of cold weather starting works well: Fuel on, switch off, pull choke out. Push starter button, turn engine 4 compression strokes. Push in choke, switch on, push starter button. When engine starts, be ready to use choke to keep it running for the first few seconds. Our winters get to -20 F and colder, but it always starts.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto378.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto379.jpg">

That is a handsome 8n you have there.

So why crank 4 strokes with the switch off? I'm going to try it but I'm just wondering why it works?
 
I ordered a new style starter drive for my 9N as others recommended. There have been many posts here about the difficulty of removing/installing a starter so I put the job off for years. This fall I was having more trouble than usual getting the tractor started so I bit the bullet and installed the new starter drive. Turned out to be about a one hour job and now the tractor starts better than it ever has. I should have done it years ago.
 

Thanks to all who replied. As I said to Bruce in his initial response, I've done the things he suggested. Battery was new last winter (early 2019) when I first experienced the issue. I keep it on a Battery Tender, so it's not sulfated or low.

I suspect it's the starter, given everything folks have said on this thread about misbehaving starters.

If anyone can give me a make/model of the kind of "modern" starter you're talking about, I'd appreciate it. I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I just know my starter's not staying engaged.
 
(quoted from post at 18:26:36 01/04/20)
Thanks to all who replied. As I said to Bruce in his initial response, I've done the things he suggested. Battery was new last winter (early 2019) when I first experienced the issue. I keep it on a Battery Tender, so it's not sulfated or low.

I suspect it's the starter, given everything folks have said on this thread about misbehaving starters.

If anyone can give me a make/model of the kind of "modern" starter you're talking about, I'd appreciate it. I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I just know my starter's not staying engaged.

It's this one: https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-8N_Starter-Drive_5211350C.html
 
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