8n Engine Fell Down

[Oak dale]

Just wanted to share an 'experience' I enjoyed Saturday. Coming back from my woods with a little firewood and all of a sudden, 'Thunk', screetching! and the whole opera came to a halt. Shut everything off and went to the front to take a look. Well, the axle king pin had worked its way back out from the engine mounting bracket and this let the engine fall down about 6 inches. The fan blade hit the axle and the radiator, the generator pulley is laying on the lower radiator hose and it is also laying on the axle. Yikes!

When I was able to get around to see the king pin, I was shocked, startled, p***&^d off, to see that the bolt hole that should have had a little bolt in it to lock in the king pin was full of dirt and grease. There apparently has not been a bolt in that hole for a long time. I bought this '52 8n in July and have really enjoyed using it. Somebody before me either forgot to put that bolt back in or decided it didn't really need to be there. Anyway, I'm now going to enjoy repairing this calamity. I needed to put in a new clutch anyway, so now I'll have it in the shop and we'll be doing some pretty deep surgery on 'Little Henry.' So, it looks like time for a new fan, radiator and clutch (maybe a new water pump, too.)

Has anybody ever experienced something like this before? Am I right that some son of a gun left out that bolt, or do these bolts 'walk' their way out sometimes?

Cheer and joy!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Well, look at the positive side: at least you won't have to drive the king pin out like most of us had to do!

Have the radiator checked; some good shops are miracle workers. The one in the pic was repairable.

I'd replace the pump; it probably has a bent shaft.

" Am I right that some son of a gun left out that bolt,"

A tight bolt w/ a washer isn't going to work out. They usually freeze. Someone left it off.......just like some idiot left the rear main drain line off of my 29 Ford.

75 Tips

 

[Ultradog MN]

Safe tractor operation means going around and checking your machine out on occasion.
This means looking for loose or missing bolts, frayed wires, cotter pins, fuel lines, tie rod ends, aged belts and hoses, tube stems sticking out of rims properly, and a host of other things. You also need to inspect your check chains and brackets for excessive wear as has been discussed here before.
Failure to do so makes you an UNSAFE OPERATOR no matter how slow or sanely you drive.
There are lots and lots of threads here about safety here -some of them make you think the guy is too terrified to even be on a tractor.
But the mother of all safety advice is check the condition of your equipment frequently.
This will be an expensive lesson for you.
Too bad.
Let it be a lesson for others too.

 

[Oak dale]

I just got back inside from taking some pictures. Thought I'd put them on here so maybe you can see what happened. I'm thinking that at one time somebody might have had a front end loader attached. The engine bracket seems a little different than what I'm seeing in the books. And, NO, I'm not going to have to fight this pin out! The bumper on the front end is the one I did have to fight over. The axle bolts were really rusted in tight. I think this bumper actually kept the engine, etc. from sliding way off to the side and maybe bending the radius rods. The receiver I welded onto the bumper is super handy, FYI. I have a tool box mounted on a 2-inch square iron that I can slip right in. Use it mostly to carry my saws, etc.

 

[Oak dale]

I'm trying to get photos here.

 

[FLOLDFORD]

Your not the first one that has happened to nor will you be the last. I've fixed a couple of them over the years for other people that the pins came out. I repaired one the had a loader on it that the pin broke in half. It's not something that most people look at until it's to late.

 

[Cooter143]

Just curious, how often do you check the security of your kingpin?

 

[Ultradog MN]

Well not every day obviously.
But if I'm doing any maintenance or changing the oil or greasing the tractor I do.
Crawl under it and inspect everything.
Start at the front - look at that center pin, is the bolt in there? Cracks in the bolster? All bolts in the pan? Bolts to the bolster look tight? Bolts to the tranny look ok?
Cotter pin in the weep hole ok? Lock nuts on the brake and clutch rods tight? Timing hole cover below tranny tight? Brake cross shaft seals drippy, leaky? Grease the bushings on the brake/clutch pedals. All cotter pins in the brake linkage ok?
Drain plugs leaking? Bolts holding the step plate brackets? Hydraulic lines to rear center housing look ok? Drawbar hanger bolts look ok?
Leaking rear axle seals? Rubber plugs in the brake backing plates to keep mud out? 3point apparatus has all pins and cotter pins? Check chains?
Plus everything on the top side.
I drive that tractor about 50 hours a year and do that maybe twice? I'm not OCD about it but yeah I do make a conscientious effort. Same with my mowers and other equipment.
I don't blame Oak Dale as he is a new user and maybe didn't know. Still... he might have seen it - if he had looked - had been taught to look; by his dad, or the military, or this board...
I always remember the old rhyme about the nail:

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

 

[howdy1960]

Yup, happened in August after redoing the engine. Won't happen again as put FEL back on.

 

[Oak dale]

I share my bad experience here as a way to offer to others a warning as to what might happen as well as a request for helpful input for myself. Thank you. I would not think that this king pin working loose would be something on the radar for a thing that might frequently fail. In the hierarchy of potential for harm, this seems very low. Since that little keeper bolt is hidden beneath the sheet metal and in my case it would have been under a thick layer of old dirt and grease, and in a very hard place to see anyway, I missed it. Nonetheless, it did and (apparently from others here) does happen!

So, in the way of seeking education for myself and others, what other unexpected things have you found in your experience that I should be on the watch for with my little Ford? I love the machine and enjoy its capabilities. I also enjoy restoring old things. Don't mind spending money on something that works! Since I'll be putting in a new clutch while I've got Little Henry on the operating table, is there anything else I might want to consider during this tear-down? (We rebuilt the hydraulic system last summer.)

 

[Ultradog MN]

Probably the first thing I do when I buy a tractor is take a pressure washer to it. Wash it then spray liquid Tide all over it, let it sit for half an hour and rinse.
Repeat.
Does a great job of degreasing it and lets you see any bolts, etc that are missing.
I would have pulled the grill and cleaned that front axle area. You might have caught that missing bolt/loose pin then.
It's been a while since I've owned an N but I would have thought you could see that pin from underneath. Maybe not. Reach up and feel for that bolt if you can't see it.
Not a whole lot of mechanical gotchas on those.
Things that come to mind is Never use rubber fuel lines, check for looseness, wobble in the water pump. On a new to me tractor I'm apt to go around and tighten every bolt I can find. Especially check your pan bolts where they hook to the tranny and bolster and tranny to rear center housing. Also the bolts on the trumpets and drawbar hanger. Loose bolts break castings!
After I did them once I don't worry too much about them but I do look for loose ones.
Snug the wheel bolts once a year.
I'm not mister sphincter boy about it all. My main tractor hasn't had an oil change in 3 years, has wire holding the muffler up, electrics are a disaster, couple of leaks I need to attend to. But I do crawl all over and under it a couple of times a year and scrutinize things closely - put a wrench on a bolt if it looks odd. Usually don't find anything but I still look, inspect, check - for safety's sake.
And then I go out and drive it like a madman
As for the clutch job, replace the front tranny seal while you're at it.

 

[markct]

Immediately along with every other parts of a tractor I just bought

 

[Colin King]

Ouch! But completely repairable. I too believe that a regular inspection of the tractor is a really good idea. Especially considering the age of these machines and the possibility of an unknown maintenance history. If I'm looking as good as my N at 70 years, I'll be happy. But stuff breaks, and that is to be expected.

Colin, MN

 

[Trevans]

And reported on TV today was a schoolbus mishap whereby the entire rear axle took leave. There were pics, and yes, the axle lay on the ground next to the chassis, with the springs still attached to the chassis. School officials stated: "A bolt failed and there was no way to inspect without disassembling bus." Yeah, right. This had to be a much more predicable failure than an axle pin! And no, there was no accident to cause this.

 

[Oak dale]

Well! We got everything stripped off and cleaned up making ready to install new parts and make necessary repairs. Thanks Ultradog. Due to nice weather I fired up the water and power washed it today. Made a ton of difference and I'm sure it will make splitting and parts replacement that much more fun.

Here's a picture of the Axle King Pin I found on my little Henry Ford. Apparently somebody had a front end loader or something else on it at some time. The bracket that is also the king pin is homemade. The hole under the king pin where the bolt should have been is for looks only. The threaded hole in the engine bracket is WAY farther down. In other words, this king pin has NEVER had a keeper bolt in it for as long as this king pin contraption has been on this tractor! Needless to say, new king pin and bushing are on the way here. Makes a person wonder what other people's kids can think of...... 'Homemade and Handy' was an expression my father used to use for near-miss crap jobs like this.

 

[Royse]

The loader frame likely held it in place when it was on there.
Once the loader was removed there was nothing to hold it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 19:42:32 12/08/15) Well! We got everything stripped off and cleaned up making ready to install new parts and make necessary repairs. Thanks Ultradog. Due to nice weather I fired up the water and power washed it today. Made a ton of difference and I'm sure it will make splitting and parts replacement that much more fun.

Here's a picture of the Axle King Pin I found on my little Henry Ford. Apparently somebody had a front end loader or something else on it at some time. The bracket that is also the king pin is homemade. The hole under the king pin where the bolt should have been is for looks only. The threaded hole in the engine bracket is WAY farther down. In other words, this king pin has NEVER had a keeper bolt in it for as long as this king pin contraption has been on this tractor! Needless to say, new king pin and bushing are on the way here. Makes a person wonder what other people's kids can think of...... 'Homemade and Handy' was an expression my father used to use for near-miss crap jobs like this.

Well Watson based on the appearance of the hanger my deduction is a bit different. It does not appear to be homemade - probably an original Dearborn/Wagner hanger for a 9N/2N that did not use the 8N style retainer bolt and consequently did not have the hole. The ugly welding and hole were added by a previous owner - probably to repair a broken weld and to add a bolt to beef up the 9N/2N mount which was terribly inadequate. At some point it and the loader were retrofit to your 8N where the bolt hole did not line up and the 8N retainer bolt was not installed.

TOH

 

[Oak dale]

Thanks! Everything you're suggesting makes sense. The plate itself appears too good to be made by the same person who did the welding! But, the
welding is definitely sub-par quality. As of right now, it really won't make much difference. New king pin arrived today. We'll put in a new
bushing while we're there. Clutch parts got here, too. So... weather and attitude being good, we'll have this little guy back up and running
better than ever pretty quick.

And for Ultradog-You are so right to recommend a wrenching checkup! I found a loose oil line to the governor that had been seeping a little oil
for a long time. That and the bolts around the governor area were all not much more than finger tight. So, thanks again! Good advice.

This unit has a Sherman combo transmission. Any special tricks to putting in a new front oil seal on this? All advice welcomed!